CR&Cie

[crisper.scoops]

Hello everyone,

I used to rely on Toytown for my many tax and insurance questions, and I’m glad to see a new version of Toytown after the old format closed down last February.

I’m reaching out regarding Chambervelt, Rooselain & Cie, aka CR&Cie. I discovered these independent financial advisors for expats through Toytown, especially thanks to Starshollow’s posts, and I was very satisfied with their services. However, I was surprised to find that all the insurance policies I had taken out through them were transferred to a company called Tjara GmbH, Kaninchenborn 31, 23560 Lübeck, without CR&Cie informing me of the change in relationship. I believe the change happened between March 2023 and now as I still had CR&Cie as my key contact before.

I contacted the representative from CR&Cie for advice on legal protection insurance, but she indicated that Tjara GmbH is now my only point of contact, which seems even stranger since CR&Cie still appears to offer their advisory services, according to their website.

Has anyone else experienced the same issue? Can anyone recommend other independent financial advisors for expats who speak English?

Thank you in advance!

[Bayrisch_Dude]

They are brokers or maklers. They do not carry your insurance or your investments, but have connections towards insurance companies and investment firms who are. I believe Underwriter is another term. I have them for my haftpflichtversicherung, again not them directly. John_g directed me to them when he stopped working.

I would not be overly worried on it. If you are not happy with the current investing firm or insurance carrier, inform CR&Cie and have them find someone else for you. That's their job.

[editorL]

Thank you in advance!

Look here: https://crcie.com/blog/author/patrick-ott/

"Patrick Ott is the founder of Chambervelt, Rooselain & Cie and has many years of experience in advising expats. On Toytown, he shares his knowledge in more than 6,000 articles."

That's Starshollow.

Now look here, his personal homepage: https://www.patrickoliverott.de/

Especially this is interesting: "Wobei meine Frau und ich dabei sind, unser Unternehmen, welches wir 2006 gemeinsam gegründet und aufgebaut haben, zu verkaufen. Ich werde mich also vollständig und zu 100% jederzeit dem Amt des Bürgermeisters widmen können."

Translation by DEEPL: "My wife and I are in the process of selling our company, which we founded and built up together in 2006. I will therefore be able to devote myself fully and 100% to the office of mayor at all times."

And yes, he won the election, he is now mayor of Baierbrunn, and the company he founded now appears to be in a "transaction phase". It is my understanding that you were transferred from one broker to another broker who "absorbed" the customers of a soon-to-be-defunct broker.

You - that is my understanding - have contracts with some insurances, but not with the broker.

Just sayin'...

[maryrrf]

It's very confusing and the website is deceptive, because Patrick Ott is still shows up as an "Expert for Insurance and Finance" when he is no longer affiliated with the company. On his LinkdIn profile, he lists his affiliation with CR & Cie as having ended in January 2022. Also, if you try to go to John Gunn's website - it directs you to a page which says John Gunn/Partner of CR & Cie, implying that HE is working with them! https://crcie.com/john-gunn/. Not knowing about the change, I contacted them about a month ago with a question about TK Insurance, explaining my problem and offering to pay a consultation fee. I received a cryptic answer from a Martina Martinez which said: "Your question is complicated. I would advise you to ask TK". (I HAD asked TK, several times and got a different answer each time - I believe that either Patrick or John would have helped with this, but Martina obviously was not interested.). I don't think the company now offers the kind of in depth consultation that Patrick Ott specialized in, unfortunately. I don't know about the investment side of things. Both Starshollow and John Gunn were very generous in sharing their knowledge on the old Toytown site. I wish I knew of an equivalent advisor.

[Fraufruit]

It might be time to find some younger advisors. Seems Starshollow has sold out and is busy being mayor.

John is in poor health and probably very close to retirement. Maybe he should have done so already.

[MadAxeMurderer]

Patrick Ott arranged the mortgages on my Nürnberg apartments and did a fine job with a difficult candidate (me)
But I find their communication exasperating. They just ignore Emails. Then apologise, commit to responding and rinse repeat.

They have good contacts, and know the business but I would be unable to tolerate their appalling communication.

John G has just given me a little pro bono help. But in principle he's retired.
He also agreed I could be the first to announce here when he died. Yes of course I asked him that when he was in hospital. Seemed to amuse him.

[Franklan]

He also agreed I could be the first to announce here when he died. Yes of course I asked him that when he was in hospital.

In my life, I handled chainsaws that had a larger ability to empathize...

[MadAxeMurderer]

In my life, I handled chainsaws that had a larger ability to empathize...

Thankyou! That is so sweet. One always appreciates a heartfelt compliment.

[HEM]

Paul Downes who was one of Pat's colleagues is still active: paul.downes@crcie.com

I believe he is occasionally on this forum but I cannot remember his ID.

I spoke to him by telephone a few weeks ago (on a financial matter).

And yes - I take a dim view of the company using Pat's name etc when hes been out of the game for a number of years.

[HEM]

That's Starshollow.

Now look here, his personal homepage: https://www.patrickoliverott.de/

The information there is several years old ...

[crisper.scoops]

Hello everyone

Thank you all for your reply.

I understand that CR&Cie is merely an intermediary for the insurance policies I took out through them. However, what I find fault with is that, until recently, they were my primary contact for any questions or recommendations related to these policies. I received no notification, neither by email nor by mail, informing me that our business relationship had ended and that my insurance policies had been transferred to another intermediary. A simple courtesy message would have been greatly appreciated and would have allowed me to take appropriate action. Again I’m not sure if I am an isolated case or if all insurances policies contracted through them have now Tjara GmbH as point of contact.

Before sharing my experience here, I took the time to review CR&Cie’s website to make sure I wasn’t mistaken. Like @maryrrf, I found their content to be misleading. I also had a similar experience with Martina, who didn’t seem very keen on assisting me with taking out new insurance policies, redirecting me to Tjara GmbH and then ceasing to respond to my messages.

I managed to have an initial conversation with Tjara GmbH, but based on my impression, they don’t seem to have a strong understanding of the specific needs that expats might have. I’m currently awaiting a proposal from them, but they’ve already informed me that it will be challenging to find the right coverage for my needs.

Therefore, I’m now looking for other intermediaries and would appreciate any recommendations you may have.

[bethannbitt]

Paul Downes who was one of Pat's colleagues is still active: paul.downes@crcie.com

I believe he is occasionally on this forum but I cannot remember his ID.

I spoke to him by telephone a few weeks ago (on a financial matter).

And yes - I take a dim view of the company using Pat's name etc when hes been out of the game for a number of years.

Paul Downes helped us with our health insurance needs 5 years ago, and he did a great job. But we, and many other expats, had to pay extra fees to competent brokers, cuz apparently the process involved a lot of rigmarole. I don’t know whether those specialized svcs are still available, but I would suggest going straight to Paul if possible. And maybe he only sells investment products now?

[Franklan]

The information there is several years old ...

It appears as if it is from 2020. One can define that as old.

However, in my book, the bigger problem is that the official website of CR&Cie hasn't been updated to reflect the changes as announced on that private webpage from 2020. That's a little bit iffy.

[Fraufruit]

Hopefully, someone is passing on these concerns to Patrick so he can get it sorted.

[HEM]

Hopefully, someone is passing on these concerns to Patrick so he can get it sorted.

I doubt it. He sold his company & moved on.

[maryrrf]

It took time, but Martina at CR & Cie actually did look into my situation at TK. I got a reply e-mail from her a couple of days ago saying that she had checked with them and found that my membership had been approved. So she did contact them on my behalf, but when she did the situation was already resolved. I finally got approved because (against the advice of the lady I talked to in person at the TK office in Passau, who said it would do no good), I sent them my Spanish permanent resident card. This must have kicked me into the category of being from the EU, rather than a USA national. TK was super frustrating in that they never really told me what I needed to provide - they'd ask for something, then a few weeks later they'd ask for something else...but I received a letter from them today saying that I'm now covered. I thought I'd let folks know that i did get an answer from CR & Cie, although I still find the website misleading in that they feature Starshollow, and also say that they are partners with John Gunn. (Maybe John gave them permission for this, I don't know.)