Getting divorced from a German

[OhCrap]

So it's got so far that I need to get divorced to save my sanity. By the sound of it my (German) spouse is well positioned to benefit in legal terms, so I have been advised by a legal hotline (!) to get a lawyer. They sounded like they were trying to avoid saying I was screwed!

Has anyone been through this and can recommend an English-speaking lawyer in Munich? I've been told I should be looking for a "Fachanwalt für Familienrecht".

[alma.freya]

So it's got so far that I need to get divorced to save my sanity. By the sound of it my (German) spouse is well positioned to benefit in legal terms, so I have been advised by a legal hotline (!) to get a lawyer. They sounded like they were trying to avoid saying I was screwed!

Has anyone been through this and can recommend an English-speaking lawyer in Munich? I've been told I should be looking for a "Fachanwalt für Familienrecht".

If you are on good terms with your spouse, you can both go to a Notar and negotiate a Scheidungsvereinbarung (separation agreement). This is considered an amicable divorce and will reduce stress and cost.

If that isn't possible, then it'll be a contested divorce and you certainly need your own lawyer. I don't have any recommendations for Munich though.

Your spouse being German and you not being German doesn't give you spouse any advantage in the divorce process. I am going through the same situation currently and our citizenships don't play a role.

[PandaMunich]

Divorce in Germany
Since 1977 it doesn't matter in Germany in a divorce case whose fault a divorce was, there are no punitive damages awarded.
So as far as German law sees it, your husband/wife could have had 10 affairs or for that matter you could have had them, it will not affect the treatment by the court or the alimony awarded or who the children will live with (in 90% of cases the mother, if the child is under 14, the percentage is higher).

Anyone English who is thinking of getting divorced in Germany should, as a preliminary step, find out whether there might be jurisdiction for them to file for a divorce in England.
This is potentially crucially important as the financial outcome of a divorce in England may be very different from the financial outcome of a divorce in Germany.
Furthermore, under Brussels II, whichever spouse files for a divorce first in time secures jurisdiction in that country.
Thus, it is essential to establish which country you want to file in and do so before the other spouse does.

When getting a divorce in Germany the first step is to consult a lawyer.
Get a Fachanwalt for Familienrecht - this means the lawyer has passed special exams on family law and has done a minimum number of divorces, basically, that lawyer is specialised in divorces.

Since all lawyers cost the same, there's no advantage getting someone who is not qualified.
If you don't know yet whether you want to file for divorce, the lawyer can charge you for the initial consultation (Erstberatung), maximum 226.10 euro (more usual is about 150 euro), see § 34 (1) RVG (in English): https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/engl ... html#p0280

However, if you are sure on filing for divorce you can just engage him/her to do so and he/she can't charge you that initial consultation fee, just the lawyer's fees for the whole divorce case calculated below.
If you now only get and pay for the initial consultation, i.e. if you are not yet sure you want to divorce and only later on hire him/her for the divorce, he/she has to credit what was charged for the initial consultation towards his/her fee, this is laid down in § 34 (2) RVG (in English): https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/engl ... html#p0280

On no account sign a "Honorarvereinbarung" with your lawyer, this would allow him/her to charge you more than according to the law governing their cost (RVG-Rechtsanwaltsvergütungsgesetz).
If you have a low income your lawyer should apply for the German state to pay for your divorce (Prozesskostenhilfe): https://www-familienrechtsinfo-de.trans ... r_pto=wapp
It is understood that when you start earning more, you will pay the German state back, but no interest is charged.

Look for one here (click on "Erweiterte Suche): https://anwaltauskunft.de/magazin

• PLZ/Ort: your town
• Fachanwältin/Fachanwalt: Familienrecht
• nur Fachanwältinnen/Fachanwälte: An
• Fremdsprache: Englisch

There will be loads of lawyers fulfilling above criteria in your town.

2024-05-31 12_11_17-Deutsche Anwaltauskunft.jpg (187.34 KiB) Viewed 3572 times

You should also know that your lawyer and your husband's/wife's lawyer will always try to reach a settlement (Vereinbarung, Vergleich), since this means they get more fees.
This effect is intended by the German state since it saves work for the courts and you will see the judge encouraging it very insistently (well, it saves her/him work, that way she/he won't have to write a ruling!), which is also why the court fees go down in the case of a Vergleich.
In case of a Vergleich, budget about 5% more than the result of the below divorce cost calculator.

The lawyer and court fees are calculated according to the "value" of the lawsuit (= Streitwert or Gegenstandswert).
It is based on your and your spouse's net incomes and about the property that has to be divided.
Please also read this article, since there are regional differences to how the "value" of the lawsuit gets calculated: https://www-advoscheidung-de.translate. ... r_pto=wapp

You can find a divorce fee calculator here, to give a first idea what a divorce in Germany costs: https://familienanwaelte-dav.de/de/sche ... tenrechner
For example, if:

• husband's monthly net income is 4,000€: fill into "Monatliches Nettoeinkommen Ehemann": 4000
• wife's monthly net income is 2,000€: fill into "Monatliches Nettoeinkommen Ehefrau": 2000
• 5% of all the joint assets that need to be divided in the divorce is 20,000€, then fill into "5% des tatsächlich vorhandenen Vermögens": 20000
• there is one kid, fill into "Anzahl unterhaltsberechtigter Kinder": 1
• both husband and wife only pay into German public pension insurance (= gesetzliche Rentenversicherung), then fill in: 2

and you will get as the result that the divorce will cost you 4,713.85€:

2024-05-31 13_23_39-Scheidungskostenrechner - Familienanwälte.jpg (275.93 KiB) Viewed 3572 times

***********************************************************************************************************************

Alimony for spouse during separation (Trennungsunterhalt):

From the time of filing for divorce until the divorce is pronounced, the spouse who earns more has to pay the spouse who earns less alimony during the time of separation (Trennungsunterhalt).

However, "Trennungsunterhalt" is only due from the time your lawyer formally asks for it from your husband/wife and the court, e.g. if your lawyer just remembers about the Trennungsunterhalt 6 months after filing for divorce, that's just your bad luck for the time before (no, this is not a joke, I saw such a case, it happened to a non-German neighbour who had hired a lawyer who was not a Fachanwalt für Familienrecht).
Of course you could sue your lawyer to get it from him - they all have professional liability insurance.
But you would have to prove that you had asked them to actually apply for Trennungsunterhalt, which is a bit hard if you only ever talk to your lawyer, i.e. if you do not communicate by e-mail to have a written record.
Of course, these kinds of mistakes do not happen if you hire a Fachanwalt/Fachanwältin specialised in family law.

Trennungsunterhalt is usually calculated as follows, if you have the child and your spouse is the higher earner:

• if only your husband/wife earns: 3/7 of (95% of his/her net income - child alimony)
• if both of you earn: half of difference between (95% of his/her net income - child alimony) and (95% of your net income)

Trennungsunterhalt calculator (it assumes that there are no children, scroll down on that page until you get to it!): https://www.unterhalt.net/ehegattenunte ... unterhalt/
If the husband earns 4,000€ net a month and the wife 2,000€ net a month, the husband has to pay the wife 814.29€ a month in Trennungsunterhalt:

2024-05-31 13_17_39-Trennungsunterhalt ▷ Höhe & Berechnung _ mit Online-Rechner.jpg (170.99 KiB) Viewed 3572 times

[PandaMunich]

According to German alimony law (Unterhaltsrecht), if you have no children, you get no further alimony from your husband/wife after the divorce (look on the bright side, this means neither will you have to pay him/her anything if he/she stops earning).

If you have children, you will be awarded child care alimony (Betreuungsunterhalt) by the court until your youngest child's third birthday.
No alimony beyond that, since German law supposes that from then on your child should attend Kindergarten and you should get a job.
Child support, on the other hand, gets paid until the child has completed training in his/her profession (Ausbildung), i.e. until the university degree at the most.

However, since March 2013, judges have started taking into consideration long marriages (over 15-20 years, even childless) as a strong argument in favour of alimony, especially given the fact that the financially disadvantaged spouse in these cases are likely to be older, with a limited prospect of being to able to get a job to support themselves 100%.
So if you had such a long lasting marriage, you will most probably get awarded spousal alimony after the divorce.

***********************************************************************************************************************

If you only get child support, no spousal support:

If you have children, the alimony for each child is calculated according to the Düsseldorfer Tabelle (subtract half of Kindergeld from the amount, at a Kindergeld of 250€ per month, you need to subtract 125€): https://www.olg-duesseldorf.nrw.de/info ... _-2024.pdf

You can also use this calculator to calculate the child support that gets paid to the poorer parent where the children live if there is no spousal alimony awarded: https://www.smart-rechner.de/unterhalt/rechner.php
To use it to calculate just the child support, just do not check the box "Ehegatten­unterhalt".

In a case with one kid and the husband earning 4,000€ net a month and the wife 2,000€ net a month, and a 5-year-old kid living with the mother, the husband has to pay the wife 528€ a month in child support:

2024-05-31 13_08_30-Unterhaltsrechner 2024 - nur Kindesunterhalt.jpg (162.47 KiB) Viewed 3565 times

***********************************************************************************************************************

Alimony for spouse and child support after the divorce:

If we have a case where the child is up to age 3 and you will get Betreuungsunterhalt after the divorce, or because the judge awards an alimony to the spouse because this has been a long lasting marriage, you can use the same calculator as before, but this time check the box "Ehegattenunterhalt": https://www.smart-rechner.de/unterhalt/rechner.php

• husband's monthly net salary/profit is 4,000€: fill into "Netto aus Erwerbstätigkeit": 4000
• wife's monthly net salary/profit is 4,000€: fill into "Netto aus Erwerbstätigkeit": 2000
• there is one kid age 5, living mainly with the mother, fill into "Anzahl unterhaltsberechtigter Kinder": 1
  and "Alter Kind": 5
  and "Lebensmittelpunkt": Mutter

--> if you're the mother, you will get 490€ a month in child support and 657€ a month in spousal alimony and you will get the 250€ Kindergeld a month:

2024-05-31 13_10_38-Unterhaltsrechner 2024 - Kindes- und Ehegattenunterhalt.jpg (174.9 KiB) Viewed 3565 times

[pappnase]

I don't have a spouse anymore, so this is largely irrelevant to me, but the depth and quality of answers from Panda never ceases to impress. Thanks for everything you do here Panda.

[sam]

Your spouse being German and you not being German doesn't give you spouse any advantage in the divorce process. I am going through the same situation currently and our citizenships don't play a role.

Except for the native language, local contacts and familiarity with the law thing.

[alma.freya]

Your spouse being German and you not being German doesn't give you spouse any advantage in the divorce process. I am going through the same situation currently and our citizenships don't play a role.

Except for the native language, local contacts and familiarity with the law thing.

Ah yes good points, I was referring to the legal aspect but wasn't explicit enough.

[OhCrap]

Thanks so much everybody for your helpful responses, I have some more reading to do.

[Nixon]

State and lawyers get 5% of all assets a couple owns? Plus part of monthly income?
Holly Molly. What if assets are in millions? It is expensive.

[PandaMunich]

State and lawyers get 5% of all assets a couple owns? Plus part of monthly income?

You misunderstood.

That is just the "basis" that they use to look up the lawyer and court fees in tables, which can be found in the annexes to court fee law and to lawyer fee law.

Please see here for how this "basis" gets calculated: https://www-scheidung-io.translate.goog ... r_pto=wapp

If you look at the example in my first post in this thread, you will see that the "basis" (Gegenstandswert) was 41,657€.
Now have a look at the family court fee table: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/famgkg/anlage_2.html
For a "basis" of 41,567€, i.e. under 45,000€, the family court fee is 563€.
The court applies a factor of 2 to that fee:
2 * 563€ = 1,126€ which is exactly the amount for the court fee in the screenshot in my first post.

--> the same court proceeding will cost more if you're rich (higher net income, higher amount of assets to be divided) than if you were poor.

[alma.freya]

--> the same court proceeding will cost more if you're rich (higher net income, higher amount of assets to be divided) than if you were poor.

Are assets still considered if the couple has made a Scheidungsvereinbarung and already agreed on how their assets should be divided?

[Nixon]

Not that I am planning to get divorced but I am glad that I was wrong

We don't have millions, and we didn't get married in Germany to begin with, but still.

State and lawyers get 5% of all assets a couple owns? Plus part of monthly income?

You misunderstood.

That is just the "basis" that they use to look up the lawyer and court fees in tables, which can be found in the annexes to court fee law and to lawyer fee law.

Please see here for how this "basis" gets calculated: https://www-scheidung-io.translate.goog ... r_pto=wapp

If you look at the example in my first post in this thread, you will see that the "basis" (Gegenstandswert) was 41,657€.
Now have a look at the family court fee table: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/famgkg/anlage_2.html
For a "basis" of 41,567€, i.e. under 45,000€, the family court fee is 563€.
The court applies a factor of 2 to that fee:
2 * 563€ = 1,126€ which is exactly the amount for the court fee in the screenshot in my first post.

--> the same court proceeding will cost more if you're rich (higher net income, higher amount of assets to be divided) than if you were poor.

[PandaMunich]

--> the same court proceeding will cost more if you're rich (higher net income, higher amount of assets to be divided) than if you were poor.

Are assets still considered if the couple has made a Scheidungsvereinbarung and already agreed on how their assets should be divided?

Yes, this is just about being "richer", i.e. being able to pay basic higher court and lawyer fees, i.e. paying just for the service "divorce" in itself.

Through having done a Scheidungsfolgenvereinbarung (agreement on the consequences of the divorce), which should have been in front of a Notar, so that it is actually enforceable should one of the parties change their mind: https://www-kanzlei--hasselbach-de.tran ... r_pto=wapp
you just avoided secondary, i.e. additional court and lawyer fees (though the lawyer will have charged you for drafting that Vereinbarung and the Notar also charges).

Please see here for details:

• https://www-finanztip-de.translate.goog ... r_pto=wapp

• https://www-scheidung-org.translate.goo ... _hist=true

• https://scheidungsanwaelte-berlin.trans ... r_pto=wapp

• https://www-isuv-de.translate.goog/info ... r_pto=wapp

[alma.freya]

--> the same court proceeding will cost more if you're rich (higher net income, higher amount of assets to be divided) than if you were poor.

Are assets still considered if the couple has made a Scheidungsvereinbarung and already agreed on how their assets should be divided?

Yes, this is just about being "richer", i.e. being able to pay basic higher court and lawyer fees, i.e. paying just for the service "divorce" in itself.

Through having done a Scheidungsfolgenvereinbarung (agreement on the consequences of the divorce), which should have been in front of a Notar, so that it is actually enforceable should one of the parties change their mind: https://www-kanzlei--hasselbach-de.tran ... r_pto=wapp
you just avoided secondary, i.e. [b]additional[/b] court and lawyer fees (though the lawyer will have charged you for drafting that Vereinbarung and the Notar also charges).

Please see here for details:

• https://www-finanztip-de.translate.goog ... r_pto=wapp

• https://www-scheidung-org.translate.goo ... _hist=true

• https://scheidungsanwaelte-berlin.trans ... r_pto=wapp

• https://www-isuv-de.translate.goog/info ... r_pto=wapp

Yes the Scheidungsfolgenvereinbarung was created by an Anwalt and notarised. I thought assets would be excluded when calculating court costs as they don't need to do any work regarding equalisation of gains.