German bank asking for SSN

[Nixon]

Hello,

I have opened a savings account at Santander (thanks @Panda for pointing out to their interest rate) and now they are asking for my SSN (US Social Security Number).
Is that a common thing now, I don't remember any other bank asking for it before?

Thanks,

Nixon.

[Franklan]

I have opened a savings account at Santander (thanks @Panda for pointing to their interest rate) and now they are asking for my SSN (US Social Security Number).
Is that a common thing now, I don't remember any other bank asking for it before?

FACTA is the problem.
It is a US law, but the US enforces any bank that has a branch in the US to abide that law world wide.

So, for the bank, you either sign a letter that you are not a US citizen, or you give them your US social security number. If you are not willing or not capable to do so, the bank might refrain from having you as a customer.

[bethannbitt]

Hello,

I have opened a savings account at Santander (thanks @Panda for pointing out to their interest rate) and now they are asking for my SSN (US Social Security Number).
Is that a common thing now, I don't remember any other bank asking for it before?

Thanks,

Nixon.

When we opened our account 4 years ago in Konstanz they wanted it. And they were absolutely flabbergasted that each us could immediately rattle it off without looking at a card.

[Nixon]

Right, pretty much everybody knows it, but this guy called me by phone and told me that I have to come at the certain time.
I had to make an appointment, Monday at 9am. Just to give them that "tax ID number". Btw, probably old school, but I am still not comfortable giving it to anybody calling over the phone

- We need your Tax ID number.
- You mean SSN?
- No, it is a tax number, Tax Id or something like that.
- Tax ID is for companies or if you don't have an SSN. I have an SSN.
- How long is that your SSN? Is it 9 digits?
- 3+2+4. Yes.
- Is it 9?
- Yes.
- OK, then that is what we need. In Germany that is a SteuerNummer (his words).

[bethannbitt]

Source: https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc857#:~: ... d%20States.

A taxpayer identification number (TIN) is required on all returns, statements, and other tax-related documents and you must provide it upon request to any other person who needs it to comply with the tax law. For most individuals, their TIN is a social security number (SSN).

[Nixon]

Technically can be, but I am looking at my 1040 and in the upper right corner it says SSN
At the same time, it says TIN for my LLC.

[Nixon]

Yep, FACTA it was.

Thank you all.

I have opened a savings account at Santander (thanks @Panda for pointing to their interest rate) and now they are asking for my SSN (US Social Security Number).
Is that a common thing now, I don't remember any other bank asking for it before?

FACTA is the problem.
It is a US law, but the US enforces any bank that has a branch in the US to abide that law world wide.

So, for the bank, you either sign a letter that you are not a US citizen, or you give them your US social security number. If you are not willing or not capable to do so, the bank might refrain from having you as a customer.

[Nixon]

Ha,

Not that fast.
Santander just called me that I have to come back to sign another form since one they gave me isn't good. Even though the file said FATCA.

German bureaucracy.

[kaffeemitmilch]

I've been asked by all my financial institutions here. When they have to report earnings to the IRS, they send me a copy of the form they send.

[Nixon]

I just came back from the branch.

I had to talk to the manager and she was very upset due to me having this account open.
Her words: It is a lot of stress for them since I am a US citizen and it is very complicated for them to go through the process. They never open an account for US citizens, and this was a mistake done by the clerk.
Poor guy, standing there and listening to her.

However, it is still OK to have it there, but I have to sign another form besides FATCA.
Selbstauskunft für natürliche Personen zur Ermittlung der steurlichen AnsässigkeitÄ in which it says "4. Besteht eine steuerliche Ansässigkeit in einem oder mehreren anderen Ländern ausserhalb Deutschlands?".
Deepl says: If you are resident for tax purposes in one or more other countries outside Germany?
Just checking to make sure I am not making a mistake.
I am a resident in Germany. I am yearly filing taxes in Germany and the USA. I am assuming that answer in my case to the question above is "Yes"?

And btw, my wife is not allowed to open an account in this branch since she is a US citizen too.
It really didn't seem to me as a complicated procedure, and you either do it or not. How come now she can't have an account in the same branch

[Franklan]

I had to talk to the manager and she was very upset due to me having this account open.
Her words: It is a lot of stress for them since I am a US citizen and it is very complicated for them to go through the process.

The FACTA is such a PITA that some banks do not want to have the hassle, and instructed their branches not to take you a s customer.

When FACTA went live, some banks even fired existing customers, because they do not want to handle that FACTA shit.
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/finanzen/fi ... 78966.html

[kaffeemitmilch]

Is this even legal here in Germany? To turn away customers because of their citizenship?

[Nixon]

I can see FACTA being a PITA for people in the back office that would have to deal with all of the stuff, but not for clerks in a branch.
All they had to do was printing an extra form and have me to sign it. They couldn't do even that right, and she was complaining about process.

[Franklan]

I can see FACTA being a PITA [..]

Under German law, banks have a data protection obligation, they cannot disclose your financial status as they wish; and then there's FACTA, which requires them to disclose your financial situation to a foreign authority.

It's like getting a tie as a Christmas present from both your mother and mother-in-law.

No matter which tie you put on first, someone will kick your ass for "ignorance/disregard".

[Nixon]

That is all good, law is the law, take it or leave it.
Their inconsistency is problematic but that is one of the things that make some banks better than other.

I am just wondering about this point #4 in the document mentioned above:

Selbstauskunft für natürliche Personen zur Ermittlung der steurlichen AnsässigkeitÄ in which it says "4. Besteht eine steuerliche Ansässigkeit in einem oder mehreren anderen Ländern ausserhalb Deutschlands?".
Deepl says: If you are resident for tax purposes in one or more other countries outside Germany?
Just checking to make sure I am not making a mistake.
I am a resident in Germany. I am yearly filing taxes in Germany and the USA. I am assuming that answer in my case to the question above is "Yes", it sounds like a question do I have tax obligations in any other country except D?

[PandaMunich]

Selbstauskunft für natürliche Personen zur Ermittlung der steurlichen AnsässigkeitÄ in which it says "4. Besteht eine steuerliche Ansässigkeit in einem oder mehreren anderen Ländern ausserhalb Deutschlands?".
Deepl says: If you are resident for tax purposes in one or more other countries outside Germany?
Just checking to make sure I am not making a mistake.
I am a resident in Germany. I am yearly filing taxes in Germany and the USA. I am assuming that answer in my case to the question above is "Yes", it sounds like a question do I have tax obligations in any other country except D?

Yes.

[Nixon]

Thank you @PAnda.