hTTi

Or in English yearly invoice for additional utility and maintenance costs.

My daughter has just been slapped with a bill for over 3,000 Euros, cant make head nor tale of it, there is so little information. Here's a pic
I also looked at her rental contract and it's time limited (not furnished). I thought this was no longer allowed?

She moved in 11.2022 and lives alone. Three others live upstairs.

Any advice greatly appreciated

AFAIK time limited is still allowed if there are good reasons such as the owner needing the space again for himself or family after the time is up.

The backcharge seems to be mostly heating. They say she used 80% of the heating bill. I am assuming she has the little counters on the radiators. Ask her if she likes it warm and cosy. If not, maybe one of their counters is broken.

As for the other stuff on there, the first line is garbage, total 468,82, per person 93,76, her share in the first column is 1.5 / 5 people = 140,646 and I can not tell you why she counts as 1.5 persons, she might know. Maybe she has a boyfriend staying over 50% of the time. Next line house tax or grundsteuer, don't see her being charged for it. Next line insurance, seems like the tenants bill is 737,04 and here she pays 25.1% which is according to the percentage of the space she is renting compared to the total or 184,99. Water is again 1.5/5 or 105,78, drain water same share 122,85, maintenance of heating now split between 4 parties 82,56. Then there is common room power bill, now the share is 1.5/5 again at 44,20 and then chimney sweep and her share 25.1% of that at 66,46 and the big one, heating, says up top percentage of heating according to meter reading 80.79% or 3870,19. Then subtract the 1200 she's already paid and end up with back charge of 3417 and the new amount for utilities will be 384,80 per month.

What you can do is request to see the actual bills but looks like your biggest problem is heating. I know that there was a law that stated that a part of the heating bill should be split according to percentage of apartment size to house, often split 50/50 or 30/70 so that is one thing to ask about as well.

The government decided to have a temporary break on gas and electricity prices called Gaspreisbremse und Strompreisbremse.

Did the landlord pass this on to the tenants which would be the right thing to do?

https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/ ... Verbrauchs.

You can also have the NKA checked by e.g. the local Verbraucherzentrale or Mieterverein.

The city of Munich offers you a so-called Mietberatung. This is free of charge: https://stadt.muenchen.de/service/info/ ... g/1074551/

Not sure if other municipalities offer this as well.

LeonG wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 2:57 pmThe backcharge seems to be mostly heating.

Which includes hot water though.

LukeSkywalker wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 4:29 pmThe government decided to have a temporary break on gas and electricity prices called Gaspreisbremse und Strompreisbremse.
Did the landlord pass this on to the tenants which would be the right thing to do?

The landlord can only pass on what they were actually billed and have had to pay, so it's not about passing on a discount, it's merely about the tenants paying for what they used.

They are heating with oil though. It states the total cost of 4790,43 and the landlord has to provide that bill if requested. It says her portion of points or counter units was 4567 points to 5653 total or 80.79% which I find suspicious because she's only renting 25,1% of the house.

The full heating bill is not that high. If you split to size, she would be paying 100 per month and the other 3 tenants in the other 75% be paying 100 each. As it's calculated, she is paying 322,52 per month and the other 3 tenants who are renting 75% of the house are paying 76,69 combined or 25,56 each which seems suspiciously low.

I would in your shoes be asking about which counters (serial numbers) are allocated to her apartment and each of their readings and compare that info with the actual counters on her radiators. If they are digital, they will flash usage this year to date vs. last year.

Escafusa wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 4:59 pm Which includes hot water though.

Not necessarily. Some apartments have a flow through water heater which the tenant pays through their own power bill.

LeonG wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 5:03 pm

Escafusa wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 4:59 pm Which includes hot water though.

Not necessarily. Some apartments have a flow through water heater which the tenant pays through their own power bill.

True, but given the amount is so high, I doubt that the figure in question doesn't include hot water.

Escafusa wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 5:06 pmTrue, but given the amount is so high, I doubt that the figure in question doesn't include hot water.

So why are the other tenants paying almost nothing? IMO more likely here is that one of her counters broke and started racing up, skewing her portion of the bill or there might be a counter or a few allocated to her apartment that are actually not in her apartment.

The other tenants are not paying almost nothing, they seem to be paying a normal amount.

There was always the risk here that they were going to receive a big bill since they are only paying €100 in the monthly Vorauszahlungen. That is quite low, especially given that heating and electricity prices have increased significantly.

When we took over a rented flat, our tenant's contract stated that the Vorauszahlungen were just €70 per month - such a low figure is and indeed was totally unrealistic. The following year she received a bill for almost €1'500 from us to make up the difference. We have since adjusted the Vorauszahlungen to €190 per month to avoid this happening again.

133,50€/L for home heating oil?

The amount must have been used because their internal use (from an internal meter reading) has been calculated as 80% of the figure given by the main meter. The internal meter reading couldn't have been higher than the main meter reading, as otherwise they would have discovered this problem already before doing the billing and working out that the internal use was 80% of the whole building's use.

murphaph wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 5:35 pm 133,50€/L for home heating oil?

Probably per 100L?

LeonG wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 5:44 pm

murphaph wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 5:35 pm 133,50€/L for home heating oil?

Probably per 100L?

Correct - heating oil prices are normally quoted per 100 litres and presumably here it includes delivery charges and the annual meter reading service charges - further charges apply and bump this price up if there are extra readings mid-year due to people moving in and out.

Thanks for all the replies.

I too noticed the 80/20 percent thing. Maybe just a mistake, if so the Nachzahlung would only be a couple of hundred. Let's hope so.

JanxSpirit wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:31 pm if so the Nachzahlung would only be a couple of hundred.

If the Nachzahlung were only a couple of hundred, who is going to pay the other 3'000?

They should also provide you with a copy of the itemized readings for the radiators and hot water meter in your flat. Were they read when you moved in? Did you keep a copy of the readings of the cold and hot water meters yourself when you moved in also? If you have these, you need to make sure they tally with what the meter reading company have on record from when you moved in.

Escafusa wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 7:07 pm If the Nachzahlung were only a couple of hundred, who is going to pay the other 3'000?

If the meter readings were wrong, the heating bill will be split up differently which means the other tenants have a bigger share.

On the face of it, given the apartments all appear to be of roughly equal size and given your daughter lives alone, her being responsible for 80% of the heating oil used in the whole building seems fairly implausible and I would want to see the meter readings for all the apartments and do my own sums. I would also be looking for a "defective" meter in her and/or the other apartments. Of course, if she has all the rads cranked up to 5 during the whole heating season then it could well be correct.

murphaph wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:05 pmI would want to see the meter readings for all the apartments

As a tenant of one flat, I'm not sure if you have the right to see the readings of the other flats.

murphaph wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:05 pm Of course, if she has all the rads cranked up to 5 during the whole heating season then it could well be correct.

With the windows open! She could well be taking a warm bath daily as well, which would be a lot of hot water.

murphaph wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:05 pm Of course, if she has all the rads cranked up to 5 during the whole heating season then it could well be correct.

That is what I figured as well until I looked at what the other tenants are paying.

Total heating cost: 4790 €/year = 399,17 €/month
Janx' daughters share: 3870 €/year = 322,50 €/month
3 other tenants share: 920 €/year = 76,67 €/month

Each of the 3 other tenants average = 25,56 €/month

Somehow that seems really low to me for heating for the other ones but could be that they never turn it on.

Escafusa wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:10 pmWith the windows open! She could well be taking a warm bath daily as well, which would be a lot of hot water.

Or long hot showers 2-3 times per day. However, I was looking up how to bill if hot water is included and it needs to be billed separately.