hTTi

I’m not sure whether it’s best to sell my deceased mother’s house or possibly let it through a charity, Sozialamt etc. I’ve seen that in my area, Caritas and other associations are looking for Vermieter. They would pay rent direct and claim this would be 100% secure.

According to the selling agents that have appraised so far, slightly negative opinions due to the age of the house, 1911, and current energy efficiency requirements. Also, I was advised that building plans would be required for perspective buyers needing purchase finance. Seemingly, this can take 2-3 months to acquire through the Bauamt if originals aren’t available. They aren’t.

I’m not adverse to letting now I have a basic understanding of how this works in DE, thanks to @Pandamunich’s excellent advice.

I’ve cleared my mum’s house of all personal items. Remaining good quality large furniture would currently sleep 8 adults plus space for 1 more. Beds, wardrobes, kitchen, bathrooms, general utensils etc.

Does anyone have any knowledge of letting a property to migrants, asylum seekers, general social needs through charitable organisations? Any recommendations, pros/cons?

Any advice would be much appreciated

Is everything up to code for letting?

Fraufruit wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 1:25 pm Is everything up to code for letting?

The only thing I couldn’t change anytime soon would be the likely Energieklasse of H based on house age and a few single glazed windows. All other aspects that I know of are close to sorted.

Sounds like a really good idea then.

@ Em - well done for getting the house cleared of personal stuff so quickly!
If you feel you know what you are doing with potential taxes and stuff, then yes, go ahead and rent the place out.
It seems a good idea to me to be able to get a guaranteed rental payment each month.

I must be missing something, but why specifying to which group of people the property should go?
Migrants, asylum seekers, .....
Can't you just put it on the market, and then whoever is interested applies for it......?

Because the rent would be 100% secure and she likes to help people in need.

That would be my guess.

The charities/organisations who support asylum seekers can be a helpful go-between and support both the landlord and the renter, and the rent is absolutely assured.

Friends of ours when their kids left converted their house back into two flats, and then added another in the roof space (staircase already there) and we joke that they started 'farming' refugees, letting individual furnished rooms within the 2 flats and living in the downstairs one themselves.

It went mostly very well. The rules for furnished accommodation are different than for unfurnished. When they've had problems (eg a lady who was seriously traumatised and difficult to deal with and called Telekom to get physical work done on the flat without permission, along with many other incidents) then they have been able to terminate the contract easily. In general the people have been fine.

Over time, they have ceased to house just refugees, and now have various different people, including a doctor who is there for work and returns to his actual home whenever time allows.

From watching their experience unfold, it looks to be a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Whether you would have to replace the windows before renting out, or whether you can generate some income first would be one question. Or maybe you can get a loan against future earnings of the property?

Also I don't know whether it makes a difference if you live in the property or if you are renting the entire thing out?

kiplette wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 11:06 pm It went mostly very well. The rules for furnished accommodation are different than for unfurnished. When they've had problems (eg a lady who was seriously traumatised and difficult to deal with and called Telekom to get physical work done on the flat without permission, along with many other incidents) then they have been able to terminate the contract easily. In general the people have been fine.

Also I don't know whether it makes a difference if you live in the property or if you are renting the entire thing out?

Actually, it being furnished or not doesn't change anything with regards to terminating the rental contract.
Only if you live in the house yourself and there are maximum 2 flats in the house (Zweifamilienhaus), is the termination of a rental contract much easier.
This is laid down in § 573a BGB: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/engl ... html#p2678

• Section 573a
  Eased termination by the lessor
  
  (1) The lessor may also terminate a lease of a dwelling in a building inhabited by the lessor themselves and having no more than two dwellings without this requiring a legitimate interest as defined in section 573. The notice period in this case is extended by three months.
  
  (2) Subsection (1) applies accordingly to residential space inside the dwelling inhabited by the lessor themselves to the extent that the residential space is not exempt from lessee protection under section 549 (2) no. 2.
  
  (3) The letter giving notice of termination is to state that the termination is based on the prerequisites set out in subsection (1) or (2).
  
  (4) A deviating agreement to the disadvantage of the lessee is ineffective.

See here: https://www-hausundgrund-de.translate.g ... r_pto=wapp

But if your friends expanded the house to 3 flats, they are no longer eligible for this easier way of getting rid of a tenant.

*************************************************************

It being furnished makes things easier when raising the rent in lets in cities, since these rent increases are normally limited by the Mietspiegel of that city.
But a Mietspiegel only applies to unfurnished flats/houses, so if it is furnished, the landlord has more latitude by how much to raise the rent: https://www-mieterverein--muenchen-de.t ... r_pto=wapp

Ah, thank you for that.

Just an update…. We had a meeting with Caritas today. Seemingly not quite as defined on their website where they state that they pay the rent directly to a landlord hence 100% secure. Lots of support for landlords etc. They just assist with translations, contracts etc. The rental contract is directly between landlord and tenants. The tenants claim everything from ProArbeit. They suggested an 8 person migrant family with young children. They weren’t interested in furniture or appliances much as tenants can claim for new items.

As my mother’s house is quite old, 1911, as a landlord, I’m not sure about the amount of maintenance and repairs necessary in order to let. It’s very difficult to find any Handwerker at the moment. All that I’ve spoken to say that as a not existing customer, they can’t help until next spring.

Meanwhile, if I were to sell, this could take quite some time as original building plans don’t seem to be available though plans are necessary to sell. The Makler we’ve met have said I’d have to get new architect plans drawn up. It can take typically 2-3 months.
+. Such a shame that short term letting, 6-12+ months, may not be viable.

Emkay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:29 pm Meanwhile, if I were to sell, this could take quite some time as original building plans don’t seem to be available though plans are necessary to sell. The Makler we’ve met have said I’d have to get new architect plans drawn up. It can take typically 2-3 months.

Have you had this confirmed from someone who isn't a Makler?

I sold a house this year and the only plans were an unoriginal Grundriss of the lower floor (top floor was not included). We didn't have any of the original plans or permits and couldn't get any useful help from the Bauamt (they needed the original builder name which we didn't know). We didn't even know the exact year the house was built. None of this was a problem for the Makler, buyer, Notar or the bank providing the mortgage.

Sorry to hear that, Emkay.

alma.freya wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:45 pm

Emkay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:29 pm Meanwhile, if I were to sell, this could take quite some time as original building plans don’t seem to be available though plans are necessary to sell. The Makler we’ve met have said I’d have to get new architect plans drawn up. It can take typically 2-3 months.

Have you had this confirmed from someone who isn't a Makler?

I sold a house this year and the only plans were an unoriginal Grundriss of the lower floor (top floor was not included). We didn't have any of the original plans or permits and couldn't get any useful help from the Bauamt (they needed the original builder name which we didn't know). We didn't even know the exact year the house was built. None of this was a problem for the Makler, buyer, Notar or the bank providing the mortgage.

That’s an interesting point. So far, 3 Makler have said that building plans are necessary. They say that potential buyers need plans for potential finance purposes. Or, for renovation etc. I can’t imagine that an original building plan from 1911 would be more useful than just showing dimensions etc,

I only know that for UK property purchases, a surveyor report is required for the purchaser’s mortgage assessment/approval. We didn’t need anything like that for our 2012 DE house purchase/DE mortgage.

Meanwhile, we’re still thinking of positive potential uses for my newly acquired house. I’d love an animal sanctuary of some sort though it’s too close to neighbours. Plants…..maybe

You don't need an architect to draw a layout, just:

• a laser rangefinder to measure the rooms, available from 16€ (Black Friday offers): https://www.amazon.de/s?k=Laser+Entfernungsmesser

  

  71FdQRRl39L._AC_SL1500_.jpg (144.35 KiB) Viewed 2979 times

• free layout software, e.g.: https://praxistipps.chip.de/grundriss-z ... ngts_12422

  

  sweethome3d.jpg (134.02 KiB) Viewed 2979 times

Just have a look at the Immobilienscout24.de offers near you, I think you will not find many with "serious" layouts done by an architect, but rather the colourful ones that you can create yourself with the above free software.

Emkay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 5:14 pm So far, 3 Makler have said that building plans are necessary. They say that potential buyers need plans for potential finance purposes. Or, for renovation etc. I can’t imagine that an original building plan from 1911 would be more useful than just showing dimensions etc,

Strange.
The house we bought in 2018, built 1938, had no plan whatsoever. And before buying it, we viewed many properties in the area. no makler or bank ever mentioned anything about plan. We bought with mortgage of course.
Maybe what's needed is some kind of sketch you can draw yourself, just to tell the dimension to whoever is interested. Exactly what Panda mentioned above.

Emkay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 5:14 pm I only know that for UK property purchases, a surveyor report is required for the purchaser’s mortgage assessment/approval. We didn’t need anything like that for our 2012 DE house purchase/DE mortgage.

Is it really so that a surveyor report is necessary for UK purchase? We bought in the UK twice, and sold once, and the only report required was the "valuation" by the mortgage lender. it was probably a bored person driving by and looking at it from his car for no longer than 3 seconds, just to confirm the property exists.

We’re just off to see another Makler. If he says the same about plans, I’ll ask for the specific reason why. The other two said it was for potential buyers requiring a mortgage and that banks insist on seeing plans.

Emkay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 8:48 am We’re just off to see another Makler. If he says the same about plans, I’ll ask for the specific reason why. The other two said it was for potential buyers requiring a mortgage and that banks insist on seeing plans.

Just a thought: perhaps this strange thing about plans is something dependent on Bundesland...?

Alberto wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 9:52 am

Emkay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 8:48 am We’re just off to see another Makler. If he says the same about plans, I’ll ask for the specific reason why. The other two said it was for potential buyers requiring a mortgage and that banks insist on seeing plans.

Just a thought: perhaps this strange thing about plans is something dependent on Bundesland...?

I wordered that too. Just had a Makler meeting with a good friend of my mother’s husband. Unlike the others we’ve met with, he would pay for the necessary plans to be made. And, pay for the Energieausweiss that the other Maklers said would cost 400-500€ due to the age of the house. All to be included in 3% (including mwst) sale commission for seller.

Got this from ChatGPT….

‘In Germany, building plans (also called Baupläne or Grundrisse) are often required when selling a property because they provide critical information about the house’s structure, layout, and dimensions. Potential buyers and notaries often use these documents to verify the legal and physical state of the property. Moreover, these plans may be necessary for financing, insurance, or future renovations.

Why Are Building Plans Important?

1. Verification of Property Details: Buyers want assurance that the property matches the advertised description.
2. Legal Compliance: Building plans show whether the house complies with zoning and construction regulations.
3. Ease of Valuation: Appraisers and banks use these plans to determine the value of the property.
4. Future Modifications: Buyers may want to renovate and need the plans for planning purposes.

What Can You Do If Plans Are Missing?

If you cannot locate the building plans, here are some steps you can take:

1. Check with the Local Building Authority (Bauamt):
• The local building authority usually keeps copies of approved building plans. You can request a copy from them, though there might be a fee.
• Note that older buildings might not have plans on file, especially if the house predates the introduction of modern building regulations .
2. Contact the Architect or Builder:
• If the house was built by an architect or contractor, they might still have the plans on file.
• This approach works best for newer properties.
3. Hire a Surveyor or Architect:
• If no plans can be found, you can hire a professional to create new ones. A surveyor or architect can measure the property and draft new plans.
4. Check the Notary’s Records:
• If you purchased the house, the notary involved in the sale might have some of the plans or documents.
5. Communicate Clearly with Buyers:
• If it’s impossible to obtain the plans, inform potential buyers and provide other documents (e.g., photos, a land registry entry, or renovation permits) to help them understand the property’s condition and layout.

Tips

• Some municipalities require the property owner’s permission to release plans, so be prepared to provide proof of ownership.
• Act early, as obtaining plans from the building authority or creating new ones can take time.

By addressing the issue proactively, you can avoid delays in the sale process.’

We had to send a plan of our old house to the bank for mortage purposes and there wasn't one, so we measured the rooms with a tape measure, did the calculation for Dachschräge and living space, and I drew a quite wonky picture of each floor and put the measurements on. Turns out where they extended between the old back door and the ehemalige stableroom and added a loo on the way above the outside cellar steps was quite difficult to express in a formal drawing so it ended up less representational then I had hoped.

Bank dude just said - you drew this yourself didn't you? Or was it one of the kids? And laughed like a drain. Honestly no-one cared. Equally, I wasn't selling it.

Simplest looks like going with the one who is an acquaintance, followed by using Panda's recommended approach which I would definitely have used if I'd known.

Have you asked these Maklers about rental? They would probably know what you would need to do to make it good for rental. There are rules for sure. Even in the UK they seriously considered forcing landlords to get their houses up to 'C' energy grade (obviously that got cut out of the new law in the end).

Thing being rental would, as FF said upthread, provide a steady income stream.