Hi all, first post on the new Toytown, great to see it back! I have a new name (it's a Seinfeld reference), you can probably figure out my old one if you're interested, which you're probably not...
Panda touched on this topic here:
Re: UK Inheritance and the German Finanzamt but I didn't want to hijack the thread. I've been told there may be double taxation on some stocks I inherited from my father abroad, and I feel as Panda said, "it just isn't fair"
In Canada, the UK, and other places, when a donor gifts an asset, the recipient aquires it with an effective purchase price of its market value on the date of the gift. That's because there's a deemed disposition by the donor, who is taxed as though they had sold it at that price. More or less the same is true if someone dies and passes on an asset. When the recipient sells the asset later, the capital gains tax they pay is reduced accordingly, because of this step-up in the cost base due to the taxes paid by the donor.
In German law though, there's no such deemed disposition or tax on the donor, and the recipient receives the asset with the original purchase cost for capital gains purposes. I've been told by a well-known German probate lawyer that there can't be any credit for the taxes paid in Canada, because there's no tax in Germany to credit it towards, and by another accountant, because the Canadian tax was paid by a different person. So when I sell the stocks (which were all purchased after 2008), I'll pay the full capital gains tax again in Germany, from the original cost price. Canada does have a DTA agreement with Germany, but there isn't anything in it specifically about this.
I also spoke to tax lawyer/tax accountants at a couple of the big accounting firms. One said that he saw a good argument for a step-up under German tax law, due to the estate being a separately-taxable legal entity. But he didn't give details. He said the Finanzamt may not agree, and quoted me a fee of €15,000-€22,000 to apply for a verbindliche Auskunft (a ruling from the Finanzamt), which is more than the tax I'd save... The other one said there's no legislation or case law, and suggested that I quietly submit bank statements showing the estate's stepped-up cost base, and hope the Finanzamt doesn't question it.
It seems kind of crazy to me. This must happen all the time, how can the answer of how it will be taxed be "nobody knows"? Is it really true that it's an individual negotiation with your particular Finanzamt every time? It seems to me that my father's cost base was stepped-up on the date of his death, just before the estate/I aquired them. I don't see how Germany can go back into his affairs and apply German tax law to him.
There's also a second deemed disposition by the estate, if it distributes an asset to a foreign resident, based on the difference between the value at the date of death and the date of distribution. I'm wondering if this one could be credited as a kind of exit tax, since Germany does acknowledge that and allow for a step-up in cost base?
Double capital gains tax on inherited/gifted foreign assets
Re: Double capital gains tax on inherited/gifted foreign assets
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Re: Double capital gains tax on inherited/gifted foreign assets
There is something about this in the double taxation agreement with regards to income tax (DTA), in article 25 (4) c): https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/ ... onFile&v=1T-Bone wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 2:38 pm Panda touched on this topic here:
Re: UK Inheritance and the German Finanzamt but I didn't want to hijack the thread. I've been told there may be double taxation on some stocks I inherited from my father abroad, and I feel as Panda said, "it just isn't fair"
In Canada, the UK, and other places, when a donor gifts an asset, the recipient acquires it with an effective purchase price of its market value on the date of the gift. That's because there's a deemed disposition by the donor, who is taxed as though they had sold it at that price. More or less the same is true if someone dies and passes on an asset. When the recipient sells the asset later, the capital gains tax they pay is reduced accordingly, because of this step-up in the cost base due to the taxes paid by the donor.
In German law though, there's no such deemed disposition or tax on the donor, and the recipient receives the asset with the original purchase cost for capital gains purposes. I've been told by a well-known German probate lawyer that there can't be any credit for the taxes paid in Canada, because there's no tax in Germany to credit it towards, and by another accountant, because the Canadian tax was paid by a different person. So when I sell the stocks (which were all purchased after 2008), I'll pay the full capital gains tax again in Germany, from the original cost price. Canada does have a DTA agreement with Germany, but there isn't anything in it specifically about this.
...
There's also a second deemed disposition by the estate, if it distributes an asset to a foreign resident, based on the difference between the value at the date of death and the date of distribution. I'm wondering if this one could be credited as a kind of exit tax, since Germany does acknowledge that and allow for a step-up in cost base?
- Article 25
Mutual Agreement Procedure
...
(4) In particular, the competent authorities of the Contracting States may consult
together to endeavour to agree:
...
c) to the method of avoiding double taxation in the case of an estate or trust.
For example, in the double taxation agreement between Germany and the UK, by searching for "Nachlass", you will find article 21 (2).
Since the "deemed disposition" only happens after a person has died, I see this as part of the Nachlass (and not as Canada does, as the person travelling back in time and selling their assets just before their death): https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency ... gains.html
- When a person dies, they are considered to have sold all their property just prior to death, even though there is no actual disposition or sale. This is called a deemed disposition and may result in a capital gain or capital loss, unless the property or asset is transferred to a spouse or common-law partner or a specific exception applies.
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By the way:
Whatever capital gains tax you will end up paying to Canada can unfortunately not be used for a tax credit against the German inheritance tax that you will pay (if you end up paying any, i.e. of your inheritance is more than the inheritance tax free allowance), since the capital gains tax is income tax, i.e. a completely different type of tax:
- https://reitz--steuerkanzlei-de.transla ... r_pto=wapp
- https://www-wf--frank-com.translate.goo ... r_pto=wapp
- and from this article (same author as the previous article): https://www.german-probate-lawyer.com/p ... -1452.html
"The Canadian capital gains tax on deemed disposition on death and similar taxes (e.g. Thai Capital Gains tax) are not comparable to the German inheritance tax and therefore cannot be offset against the German inheritance tax. However, such taxes can be deducted as estate debt or as expenses of administration of the estate."