hTTi

I'm Italian, EU, so I don't need a visa to reside in Germany.
My wife is Japanese and she's been here with me with family visa (is this how is called? can't remember exactly) for just over 10yr. At the last renewal some years back they made her visa "permanent". Her visa is bound that we must continue to reside at the same address. No plan to split, ever.
She will not want to apply for Germany citizenship because Japan doesn't allow double and she prefers to keep her Japanese citizenship.
My wife has no income of her own (excluding our small UK rental), and no formal job. Which is ok for our finances as far as we are together.

I'm young (50 is young, right? ), and afaik healthy. But one day we'll both pass away, and perhaps it will be me first.

Question: if/when my wife is eventually alone, what right will she have to stay in Germany?
Dunno if it matter but we have a child (whom it's likely will take German citizenship sometime...)

Thanks

If you say her visa was "made permanent" then that is a Niederlassungserlaubnis (= permanent residency): https://www.expatrio.com/about-germany/ ... ce_permit?

With a Niederlassungserlaubnis, she has all the rights a German citizen has, the only exceptions are that she cannot vote and that she is not allowed to leave Germany for longer than 6 months without losing the permant residency (she is allowed to leave for longer than 6 months,if she gets prior written permission from the Ausländerbehörde): https://www-berlin-de.translate.goog/ei ... r_pto=wapp

German visas are never "bound that we must continue to reside at the same address", you can always move.
There is a German visa that is "bound to being employed at a certain employer", but that is it.

If what she will receive in UK rent and the widow's pension are not enough, then I'm afraid they will make her sell the German and UK houses and use up the proceeds to live on, before they will give her "Grundsicherung im Alter" (= welfare, colloquially known as Hartz IV) as a top-up to cover the difference between the Hartz IV level (= Grundsicherung) and her worldwide income.

If she did not have any assets (but she will, these 2 houses), then with a Niederlassungserlaubnis and not enough income to live on, she would get a welfare top-up up to Hartz IV level, see the end of this article written by a lawyer: https://www.migrationsrecht.net/Beitrae ... recht.html

• Die geringsten Auswirkungen hat die Reform am Arbeitsmarkt auf Einwanderer mit einer unbefristeten Niederlassungserlaubnis. Diese erhalten Zugang zu Leistungen der Grundsicherung für Arbeitssuchende und können diese beziehen, ohne deswegen aufenthaltsrechtliche Sanktionen befürchten zu müssen. Für diese Gruppe von Einwanderern kann die nicht ausreichende Sicherung des Lebensunterhaltes allein im Falle einer beabsichtigten Einbürgerung oder für die Frage des Familiennachzuges von Belang sein.

• The labour market reform will have the least impact on immigrants with a permanent settlement permit. They will have access to basic benefits for jobseekers and will be able to receive these, without having to fear sanctions under residence law. For this group of immigrants, inadequate livelihood security may only be relevant in the event of intended naturalisation or for the question of family reunification.

Thanks a lot Panda.
Again, I was wrong.
I hope the right extremists do not get too much support otherwise this could well change.

Question:
when it comes to force the low-income person selling assets, house(s), do they look only at income, or they count also savings and assets? Of course I hope the latter, it could well be that between savings and assets the low income person has more than enough to live ok.

Something else:
For the record: the UK does not give a widow pension. Not for the "state pension" at least, the ca £160/week that everybody who worked many years gets, at least. Having said that, many people also have some extra pension, private from their work, and these generally do give a widow pension.

Alberto wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:19 am Question:
when it comes to force the low-income person selling assets, house(s), do they look only at income, or they count also savings and assets? Of course I hope the latter, it could well be that between savings and assets the low income person has more than enough to live ok.

They would allow her to keep 10,000€ in savings, see here: https://www-deutsche--rentenversicherun ... r_pto=wapp

And they would only allow her to keep the German house that she is living in, if it were "appropriate" (= angemessen). To see what is considered "appropriate", please see pages 18 and 19 in "Fachanweisung zu § 90 SGB XII – Einsatz des Vermögens": https://www.hamburg.de/contentblob/1162 ... moegen.pdf
Basically, if she lives in the house alone, you would have to deduct from the 130m² living space permitted a family of 4, the living space of 3 persons * 20m²/person.
--> The maximum allowed living space of the house would only be 70m².
If she needs care, add 20%, and you are at 1.2 * 70m² = 84m² living space permitted

And the size of the land plot the house is on, is only allowed to be maximum:

• 250m² land if it is a terraced house (Reihenhaus)

• 350m² land if it is a semi-detached house (Doppelhaushälfte)

• 500m² land if it is a detached house (frei stehendes Haus)

If the above criteria are not met by your German house, they can make her sell it and live off the proceeds.

I'd just like to clarify this one statement, please -

"German visas are never "bound that we must continue to reside at the same address", you can always move."

Do you mean that they can both move to a different address together or could one or the other get their own place and move there?

Fraufruit wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 9:53 am I'd just like to clarify this one statement, please -

"German visas are never "bound that we must continue to reside at the same address", you can always move."

Do you mean that they can both move to a different address together or could one or the other get their own place and move there?

The German state doesn't oblige anyone to stay together, you can separate or divorce.

As long as you already have a Niederlassungserlaubnis (permanent residence) that is not a problem, even if afterwards you do not have enough money to live on, the state will give you welfare (Grundsicherung).

It is a problem if you do not yet have a Niederlassungserlaubnis, do not have your own income and then separate.
If you hadn't yet lived for 3 years (if you're Turkish, it's only 2 years) in Germany at that point, you do not have your own right to stay in Germany, see this article written by a lawyer: https://www-anwalt--diedrich-de.transla ... r_pto=wapp

Even if you had already been in Germany for 3 years (2 years if you're Turkish), if you do not already have a Niederlassungserlaubnis, the state expects you to start working, i.e. that you can support yourself after the divorce, or you will not get another visa extension the next time round.
Supporting yourself while only being separated, i.e. not yet being divorced, is not yet a problem, since the working spouse has to pay you Trennungsunterhalt (separation alimony).
Note: after separating, your lawyer has to ask the working spouse for Trennungsunterhalt, you don't get it automatically, for details please see the "Divorce in Germany" wiki, the wiki link miraculously still works: https://www.toytowngermany.com/wiki/Divorce_in_Germany