hTTi

How does Germany differ from other countries?

I have lived here many years so I am not sure any more about how the UK was/is but I can think of three things

1. Tradition is particularly strong. I often see tradionally dressed craftspeople/Handwerker. They still go on the Walz for three years during which they are not allowed to visit their Heimatort. Very good!

2. Germany functions well. Markus Lanz (Italian/German) explained that many countries including Italy are less well organised.

3. Financially Germany is better organised, problems with too much or too little money are rarer. The UK has an obsession with home ownership, but in Germany renting a home is quite normal.

What else is different about Germany?

Fietsrad wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:30 amGermany functions well.

This is a matter of opinion. Tax rates are among the highest in the world. For such high taxes, I personally feel the country functions very poorly compared to other nations. Bureaucracy is ridiculous and a massive blight. Public transport and local services are poor, in some cases atrocious. Of course it depends on exactly where you are. Incomes are also quite low, I can't imagine depending on a salary/pension/benefits here and being able to live properly/decently.

Fietsrad wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:30 ammany countries including Italy are less well organised.

Easy to compare to Italy, which is disastrous and basically a lost cause. Most countries are better organized than Italy.

Fietsrad wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:30 amThe UK has an obsession with home ownership, but in Germany renting a home is quite normal.

I wouldn't say that the UK has an obsession. I just think it is normal, decent and very reasonable that every person should own their own home. No one should have to pay rent to line the pockets of someone else. Of course there can be exceptions, but it shouldn't be the norm. Most people (but not all) who rent, generally have a poorer quality of life and less money at their disposal as they are paying far too much for where they live and that money is lost. If they move they get no money back out of what they paid, whereas if you own, you can sell and get your money back, possibly even make a profit.

Personally I've always thought that renting is something that students do.

Apart from the incomes being so low, further ridiculous barriers to home-ownership in Germany are the property acquisition taxes and estate agent fees.

Escafusa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:32 pm Tax rates are among the highest in the world. For such high taxes, I personally feel the country functions very poorly compared to other nations.

I think Germany as a country functions very well.

Escafusa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:32 pm Bureaucracy is ridiculous and a massive blight.

This is the way Germans like it.

Escafusa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:32 pm Public transport and local services are poor, in some cases atrocious.

I think public transport and services are good.

Escafusa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:32 pm Incomes are also quite low, I can't imagine depending on a salary/pension/benefits here and being able to live properly/decently.

You live in your own fantasy.

Escafusa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:32 pmEasy to compare to Italy, which is disastrous and basically a lost cause. Most countries are better organized than Italy.

Most countries are less well organized than Italy. And in extremely few countries, if any, people have less good quality of life than in Italy.

Fietsrad wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:30 am The UK has an obsession with home ownership

Yes, the UK is obsessed with home ownership

Escafusa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:32 pm I wouldn't say that the UK has an obsession.

Yes, the UK is obsessed with home ownership

Escafusa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:32 pm No one should have to pay rent to line the pockets of someone else.

People do not pay the rent to line the pockets of someone else. Many people in Germany can afford to buy but have their reasons why they prefer to rent. And if they do pay the rent, they do it in order to have a place where they can live.

Escafusa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:32 pm If they move they get no money back out of what they paid, whereas if you own, you can sell and get your money back, possible even make a profit.

Did your Excel spreadsheet terminate at the row when you sold your house? The money you got back at that moment will go away at the next row, when you buy the next house.

Escafusa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:32 pm Apart from the incomes being so low

You live in your own fantasy

As I said, it is a matter of opinion for most aspects of life and it also depends a lot on where you are.

Alberto wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:16 pm You live in your own fantasy

Not at all, I just live in the real world where the cost of living is high.

Escafusa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:20 pm Not at all, I just live in the real world where the cost of living is high.

When you registered on this forum, this was done with a British IP.

All your posts so far (including the one quoted) came from Italian IPs.

It is my assumption that you do not actually live in Germany. My guess is Lombardy.

editorL wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:41 pm When you registered on this forum, this was done with a British IP.
All your posts so far (including the one quoted) came from Italian IPs.

If the registration was done from a British IP then the VPN was on UK because I'd probably been watching something on the BBC i-player.
Why are our IPs being analysed in this way in any case?

editorL wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:41 pm It is my assumption that you do not actually live in Germany. My guess is Lombardy.

We live in Germany,

Escafusa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:56 pm Why are our IPs being analysed in this way in any case?

There is no automated analyzation of IP addresses of users, however, I take the liberty to check the logs when something reeks.

We live in Germany,

Doesn't look like that at all. A way to resolve this issue would be writing something here.

No one should have to pay rent to line the pockets of someone else.

What a strange thing to say!

Do you mean renting should be illegal. So people either own property or are homeless? That seems very draconian. Very anti low earners

Or do you mean people like me who bought property as an investment and have mortgages to pay off should let people just stay for free?
Who's going to pay my mortgage?

In fact who's to provide apartments at all if they can't make profit doing so.
Could make the exact same point about food. Food is essential and farmers, supermarkets and restaurants should not be profiting from an essential resource

MadAxeMurderer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:17 pm
What a strange thing to say!

It is and it isn´t.

MadAxeMurderer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:17 pm Or do you mean people like me who bought property as an investment and have mortgages to pay off should let people just stay for free?
Who's going to pay my mortgage?

Property brought to be rented out is harming the market for people who want to buy a house to actually live in, making more renters, therefore increasing rental prices making more profits for landlords.

MadAxeMurderer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:17 pm In fact who's to provide apartments at all if they can't make profit doing so.

Ever heard of social housing.
Surely humanity at the very least should provide everyone with somewhere to live.

MadAxeMurderer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:17 pm Could make the exact same point about food. Food is essential and farmers, supermarkets and restaurants should not be profiting from an essential resource

How you can equate farmers with landlords is a joke.
A farmer actually has to work for his money, in most cases 365 days a year.
BTW the average farmer in Germany has left for himself at the end of the year 32k, that´s to pay his mortgage and living costs etc.

MadAxeMurderer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:17 pm Or do you mean people like me who bought property as an investment

Yes.

Fietsrad wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:30 am What else is different about Germany?

Germany does a number of things according to the motto "Why do things simple when complicated can be made to work almost as well?".

Examples: Taxation, health insurance...

Incomes are also quite low, I can't imagine depending on a salary/pension/benefits here and being able to live properly/decently.

Didn't you say that you went out sick from work to pay back your employer for some kind of unfair/shitty treatment and then went on disability when that company didn't have to compensate you any longer and that you haven't worked since 2011 or some such?

Mind if I ask what you are living from now in Germany? Certainly nobody's business so you don't have to answer.

Ever heard of social housing.

I certainly have. What happens is there's a very limited supply and huge waiting lists. The privileged few with connections get very cheap housing. The great unwashed have to rent on the black market and pay 5 times as much as they would pay in a free market.

Surely humanity at the very least should provide everyone with somewhere to live.

You're absolutely right. There should be no starvation, no rape, no violence, no war.
And everybody should have a place to live.

How about presenting a plan to make it happen because I'm clueless as to how that can be achieved short of exterminating humanity.

Which would be great for the planet, but is a little radical.

One thing that was and is a big problem in the UK: council tax/poll tax. Caused a lot of trouble towards the end of the Thatcher era.

In Germany there is no poll tax, where does the money come from instead?

But as pensioner one does pay for health insurance in Germany, while in the UK there is no specific "health tax".

Fietsrad wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:08 am while in the UK there is no specific "health tax".

Its part of "National Insurance" (NI).

HEM wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:47 am

Fietsrad wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:08 am while in the UK there is no specific "health tax".

Its part of "National Insurance" (NI).

This is a misconception. Many UK residents, pensioners and some more, pay income tax but not NI. Yet they're entitled to health care.

But ultimately, do you really care how you call each particular tax? Or maybe you care only about the total taxation and services...

Alberto wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 3:55 pm

HEM wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:47 am

Fietsrad wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:08 am while in the UK there is no specific "health tax".

Its part of "National Insurance" (NI).

This is a misconception. Many UK residents, pensioners and some more, pay income tax but not NI. Yet they're entitled to health care.

No its not. I confirmed that there is no specific "health tax" in the UK (its not a tax here either...)
Health insurance is part of "National Insurance" (NI).

Normally once you reach "State Pension age" you cease paying National insurance but continue to be entitled to NHS care.

The trains in Germany are better I think. Used to travel by train in the UK a lot many years ago, not sure how it is now, but on the London tube there are barriers, looks inconvenient.

In Berlin many trains go right through the city, stopping several times, for many destinations you can use the Ringbahn (not in a tunnel!)

In London oftentimes you land at a terminus, hundreds of people get off the train at the same time and hurry to the unterirdischen Tube, nee!

Fietsrad wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:08 am One thing that was and is a big problem in the UK: council tax/poll tax. Caused a lot of trouble towards the end of the Thatcher era.

In Germany there is no poll tax, where does the money come from instead?.

Here's an overview
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kommuna ... ust%202004)%20und%20die%20Hundesteuer.

In short, lots of sources, the main one that comes to mind is Grundsteuer, sort of like the old UK rates. Taxes on local businesses, a proportion of income tax paid by employees, some I think from general taxation to equalise regional disparities, purchase tax on properties, charges for water provision and sewage disposal, dog tax and various municipal taxes that may be raised. etc etc. You might be horrified to be charged a portion of street maintenance outside your property.
And owners generally have more responsibilty for keeping paths and gutters free from debris, weeds, snow ... sweep, sweep, sweep ....

There isn't a culture of after work socialising like in the UK. I actually prefer this, however for some people it reduces the opportunity where you can potentially make some new friends.