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Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:48 am
by alma.freya
Great news! The new citizenship laws that were passed in Feb have now been signed by the president and published in the Bundesgesetzblatt. They will come in to effect on the 27 June.
Among the benefits of the law is the possibility of dual nationality. e.g. As a UK citizen, I can now obtain German (and EU) citizenship without having to relinquish my British citizenship.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:48 am
by Krieg
The link:
https://www.recht.bund.de/bgbl/1/2024/104/VO.html
Most relevant for us: dual citizenship is allowed, B1 is required, 5 years in the country instead of 8, and in some exceptional cases down to 3 + C1.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:37 pm
by Fietsrad
Might be worth applying soon, if the CDU get into power they might rescind the law
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:13 pm
by alma.freya
Fietsrad wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:37 pm
Might be worth applying soon, if the CDU get into power they might rescind the law
Yes this is a concern, however if CDU form a coalition which includes Green or SPD, it's very unlikely to have support as it'll be embarrassing to rescind a law you helped pass.
And a CDU AfD coalition may also not rescind it because some AfD members have said they support dual citizenship because it makes it easier to remove your German citizenship if it doesn't result in you becoming stateless. But then I think we'll have other concerns.
And I'm sure the FDP (the only party to work with AfD) will support anything providing they get something in return.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 6:45 pm
by kiplette
If you are a Brit with a civil service or military pension, don't forget that taking German citizenship will result in your pension being taxed here In Germany.
Although apparently that's not always a bad thing.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:57 am
by Krieg
Now that the law has been approved we can move to the practical and real life issues and things look very grim. The decision was to centralize all citizenship applications and to do it in a digital way, the new
Zentrale Einbürgerungsstelle was created in Berlin and they started this year with a backlog of 40.000 cases and the idea was to process 20.000 applications a year, just this shows a big problem, just for the backlog before the new law was approved people had to wait ANOTHER two years, some people have been waiting since 2020. They expect that this year there will be 50.000 new applications so at the end of the year there would be still a backlog of 70.000 applications. And I myself think that 50.000 applications this year is a very conservative number. But to make things worse, things are not running well, there should be 175 case workers doing all the work but until now there are barely 100 workers hired. So the backlog at the end of the year will be much higher than planned.
Old case applications were done in paper and those were supposed to be digitalized in the new system, but this isn't working either, so they suggest that people who applied from 2020 and are still waiting should reapply, and pay again the applications fees, but they tell you not to worry, they will reimburse at the end the 255 EUR you paid double, like that money is the main problem and not that people have been waiting for four years for nothing. Since the old cases are not all digitalized in the new system, new cases get processed first, which is a total chaos and completely unfair.
Sources:
https://taz.de/Einbuergerung-in-Berlin/!6000671/
https://pardok.parlament-berlin.de/star ... -18546.pdf
https://pardok.parlament-berlin.de/star ... -18427.pdf
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:51 pm
by alma.freya
Krieg wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:57 am
Now that the law has been approved we can move to the practical and real life issues and things look very grim. The decision was to centralize all citizenship applications and to do it in a digital way, the new
Zentrale Einbürgerungsstelle was created in Berlin and they started this year with a backlog of 40.000 cases and the idea was to process 20.000 applications a year, just this shows a big problem, just for the backlog before the new law was approved people had to wait ANOTHER two years, some people have been waiting since 2020. They expect that this year there will be 50.000 new applications so at the end of the year there would be still a backlog of 70.000 applications. And I myself think that 50.000 applications this year is a very conservative number. But to make things worse, things are not running well, there should be 175 case workers doing all the work but until now there are barely 100 workers hired. So the backlog at the end of the year will be much higher than planned.
Old case applications were done in paper and those were supposed to be digitalized in the new system, but this isn't working either, so they suggest that people who applied from 2020 and are still waiting should reapply, and pay again the applications fees, but they tell you not to worry, they will reimburse at the end the 255 EUR you paid double, like that money is the main problem and not that people have been waiting for four years for nothing. Since the old cases are not all digitalized in the new system, new cases get processed first, which is a total chaos and completely unfair.
Sources:
https://taz.de/Einbuergerung-in-Berlin/!6000671/
https://pardok.parlament-berlin.de/star ... -18546.pdf
https://pardok.parlament-berlin.de/star ... -18427.pdf
Perhaps waiting for the grindingly slow German bureaucracy is the
real test of citizenship.
Is the Zentrale Einbürgerungsstelle only to centralise Berlin applications, or is the plan to handle all nationwide applications?
I read some arguments against the new law on the grounds that it would increase the backlog of applications which were already very high. I personally don't see how these are connected; the law was outdated and that has now been rectified. Now It's time to also fix the woefully slow application process. There is no reason we can't have the new laws
and a faster application turn-around.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:57 pm
by Krieg
The new central processing office is for the whole country.
And of course the new law will create a massive quantity of new applications. It is estimated that between 500.000 and 2'000.000 people were waiting for dual citizenship to be implemented. Read: People who have the right to apply for citizenship but didn't do it because they were not willing to quit their original citizenship.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:08 pm
by alma.freya
Krieg wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:57 pm
The new central processing office is for the whole country.
Do applicants still start their application with their local Landkreis, and once all the documents are collected, the application is then submitted to the central processing office?
Krieg wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:57 pm
And of course the new law will create a massive quantity of new applications. It is estimated that between 500.000 and 2'000.000 people were waiting for dual citizenship to be implemented. Read: People who have the right to apply for citizenship but didn't do it because they were not willing to quit their original citizenship.
I didn't mean to imply the new law won't increase the number of applications, rather that it shouldn't be an argument against the new law. I hope the new law will provide the government with enough motivation to provide an improved application process.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:35 pm
by Krieg
The new central place in Berlin is the "improved" one.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 4:03 pm
by alma.freya
Krieg wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:35 pm
The new central place in Berlin is the "improved" one.
Yes, right. Hopefully they will continue to improve it.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:00 pm
by Nixon
What are the practical/real benefits for a US citizen with German Permanent Residency to get a German citizenship?
I have asked before about German state pension, and it is not reduced even if you leave Germany.
Is there any right that is taken away or reduced if you are not a German citizen and you retire or leave Germany?
Thanks.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:39 am
by Krieg
Krieg wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:57 pm
The new central processing office [s]is for the whole country.[/s]
And of course the new law will create a massive quantity of new applications. It is estimated that between 500.000 and 2'000.000 people were waiting for dual citizenship to be implemented. Read: People who have the right to apply for citizenship but didn't do it because they were not willing to quit their original citizenship.
I correct myself here, the
Zentrale Einbürgerungsstelle in Berlin is only for Berlin, every state will manage the applications themselves. The consolidation in Berlin is because before there were offices in every district. So the situation in Berlin, while still dire, it is not as critical as I initially thought.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:29 pm
by Fraufruit
Nixon wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:00 pm
What are the practical/real benefits for a US citizen with German Permanent Residency to get a German citizenship?
I have asked before about German state pension, and it is not reduced even if you leave Germany.
Is there any right that is taken away or reduced if you are not a German citizen and you retire or leave Germany?
As an American, I'm just not seeing any advantages that are worth the hassle even though I'd been looking forward to the possibility for years. Right now, the only thing I can think of is a big what if as in what if AFD takes over and kicks out all of us Ausländer.
I may change my mind at some point but for now I'm good with the status quo.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:21 pm
by Nixon
If AfD, or any other party gets into a position to kick out foreigners, would you want to stay in Germany?
Fraufruit wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:29 pm
Nixon wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:00 pm
What are the practical/real benefits for a US citizen with German Permanent Residency to get a German citizenship?
I have asked before about German state pension, and it is not reduced even if you leave Germany.
Is there any right that is taken away or reduced if you are not a German citizen and you retire or leave Germany?
As an American, I'm just not seeing any advantages that are worth the hassle even though I'd been looking forward to the possibility for years. Right now, the only thing I can think of is a big what if as in what if AFD takes over and kicks out all of us Ausländer.
I may change my mind at some point but for now I'm good with the status quo.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:55 pm
by Eric7
Nobody is going to be kicking out foreigners en masse.
Firstly, there are way too many of them/us - 26% in 2019 and surely higher now.
Who defines what a foreigner is anyway? Ethnic Germans with Russian or Polish roots etc., 3rd generation Turks?
Anyway, Germany needs the immigrant workforce for the country to function.
Nope.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2024 8:11 am
by Fraufruit
Nobody is going to be kicking out foreigners en masse.
Yes, I know this. Therefore, I can't see any reason to get a German passport unless and until they can streamline and simplify the process.
would you want to stay in Germany?
That would depend on which nutters were running my own country at the time. I certainly don't want to go back there now with the non-functioning government kowtowing to Trump.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2024 8:46 am
by alma.freya
Fraufruit wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2024 8:11 am
Nobody is going to be kicking out foreigners en masse.
Yes, I know this. Therefore, I can't see any reason to get a German passport unless and until they can streamline and simplify the process.
would you want to stay in Germany?
That would depend on which nutters were running my own country at the time. I certainly don't want to go back there now with the non-functioning government kowtowing to Trump.
If you become a German citizen, the biggest benefit might be recieving EU citizenship, allowing you to easily move anywhere within the EU.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2024 8:58 am
by Fraufruit
If you become a German citizen, the biggest benefit might be recieving EU citizenship, allowing you to easily move anywhere within the EU.
You are right and that would be very appealing to me if I was much younger.
Re: Law to modernize nationality law (StARModG) has been signed and published
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2024 10:22 am
by Krieg
Fraufruit wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:29 pm
Nixon wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:00 pm
What are the practical/real benefits for a US citizen with German Permanent Residency to get a German citizenship?
I have asked before about German state pension, and it is not reduced even if you leave Germany.
Is there any right that is taken away or reduced if you are not a German citizen and you retire or leave Germany?
As an American, I'm just not seeing any advantages that are worth the hassle even though I'd been looking forward to the possibility for years. Right now, the only thing I can think of is a big what if as in what if AFD takes over and kicks out all of us Ausländer.
I may change my mind at some point but for now I'm good with the status quo.
If AfD were in power having dual citizenship won't help. In AfD eyes dual citizenship is good, because that would allow them to take away German citizenship from people if they have another citizenship, this wouldn't be possible when people had only German citizenship because you can't leave people stateless. And even worse, AfD thinks in this way they can get rid of born Germans who are too friendly to foreigners if they ever take another citizenship.
