hTTi

Well, and back to our fellow poster Bogies's problem, can anyone really claim not to understand that this was an illegal statement in the face of the conversation that was had about it online and on the news if one is savvy enough to post about it on Twitter in German?

AlexTr wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 5:18 pm Well, and back to our fellow poster Bogies's problem, can anyone really claim not to understand that this was an illegal statement in the face of the conversation that was had about it online and on the news if one is savvy enough to post about it on Twitter in German?

point taken, but how many people form an opinion based on headlines?

While I generally steer clear of any topic related to ww2 or nazis, I have lived here for 35 years, yet knew nothing of this phrase (or 14 words, for that matter).

I get your point, Jay, but in the context of the wider conversation in the media at the time, I merely wonder how a judge will view a foreigner engaging on social media in German then claiming they hadn't grasped the precariousness of such a statement. I'm not saying it points to a consciousness of the crime at all; i just wonder how much a judge would agree that a foreigner who normally resides in Germany and engages in German on social media is unaware of the issues at hand.

And to further your point, my German wife had no idea that this kind of speech was illegal until I told her in 2010 — after I had read the StGB in English. Obsessive? Maybe. But I have yet to have accidentally broken the law.

Franklan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2024 12:37 pm Just as an aside: Be very careful when you make 420 jokes, like "I think everything that has to do with 420 is cool", because Hitler's birthday was April 20th. This can quickly lead to misunderstandings.

420 is a significant date in cannabis culture. Have you seen any references to this in Germany, or do the German cannabis smokers know this number is problematic and not to use it for such purposes?

Well,
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoranti ... on_excusat

In law, ignorantia juris non excusat (Latin for "ignorance of the law excuses not"),[1] or ignorantia legis neminem excusat ("ignorance of law excuses no one"),[2] is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law may not escape liability for violating that law merely by being unaware of its content.

Höcke used to be a history teacher.

Höcke was fined 100 Tagessätze*130€(income related),
(pay 13000€ - or spent 100 days in prison if you refuse to pay)
this leads to
https://dejure.org/gesetze/BZRG/32.html /(2)/5.

5. Verurteilungen, durch die auf
a) Geldstrafe von nicht mehr als neunzig Tagessätzen, !!!!!!!!!
b) Freiheitsstrafe oder Strafarrest von nicht mehr als drei Monaten
erkannt worden ist, wenn im Register keine weitere Strafe eingetragen ist,

BZRG
§ 32 ------------- (DeepL)
Content of the certificate of good conduct

(1) 1The entries specified in §§ 4 to 16 shall be included in the certificate of good conduct. .......

(2) The following shall not be included

5. convictions resulting in
a) A fine of not more than ninety daily rates,
b) a custodial sentence or imprisonment of not more than three months
if no other sentence is entered in the register,
(DeepL)

For how long?
https://dejure.org/gesetze/BZRG/46.html

ooch wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 10:41 am this leads to
https://dejure.org/gesetze/BZRG/32.html /(2)/5.

5. Verurteilungen, durch die auf
a) Geldstrafe von nicht mehr als neunzig Tagessätzen, !!!!!!!!!
b) Freiheitsstrafe oder Strafarrest von nicht mehr als drei Monaten
erkannt worden ist, wenn im Register keine weitere Strafe eingetragen ist,

BZRG
§ 32 ------------- (DeepL)
Content of the certificate of good conduct

(1) 1The entries specified in §§ 4 to 16 shall be included in the certificate of good conduct. .......

(2) The following shall not be included

5. convictions resulting in
a) A fine of not more than ninety daily rates,
b) a custodial sentence or imprisonment of not more than three months
if no other sentence is entered in the register,
(DeepL)

For how long?
https://dejure.org/gesetze/BZRG/46.html

Two things:

1) Höcke was charged and found guilty under StGB 86a.

2) I don't understand how you linked 32 BZRG to this case. They don't seem related. Can you fill in the missing part between using a banned phrase due to content and penalties for which he could be precluded from getting a good conduct certificate? I am not following this case closely and could have missed the relevance.

Are you just saying he can no longer get the certificate required to return to teaching? Well, it seems clear he should not be left alone with young people where he could warp their minds.

AlexTr wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 5:24 pm
1) Höcke was charged and found guilty under StGB 86a.

2) I don't understand how you linked 32 BZRG to this case. They don't seem related. Can you fill in the missing part between using a banned phrase due to content and penalties for which he could be precluded from getting a good conduct certificate? I am not following this case closely and could have missed the relevance.

The fact that he got a fine of more than ninety daily rates means that this definitely goes onto the record as a conviction, so he is "vorbestraft" now ("to have a criminal record").

Hey Bogie, what's happening with this now? Is it dismissed already?

Franklan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2024 2:55 pm

Bogies wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2024 2:43 pm [..] it was just my standpoint.

Nice to know that you have that standpoint. Explicitly voicing that standpoint is considered a criminal act in Germany, as far as I know.

Was the standpoint that, the expression must be legally permissible, or was it that, the expression is correct?

But anyway, different countries take vastly different views, even within the ECHR signatories. France restricts religious clothing and expression in the public realm, Germany and Austria restrict politically dangerous speech.

Yeah you can be the one to take a challenge to Strasbourg, but do you really want to do that to yourself? Especially if it's for a belief you don't actually hold...

Luckily, it's not a problem, as Panda posted a couple pf pages back:

PandaMunich wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2024 5:28 pm This is a storm in a teacup.
Saying the expression in the context of sports is not forbidden: https://www-welt-de.translate.goog/gesc ... r_pto=wapp