House renovation experience/Förderungen (grants)

[Emkay]

Does anyone have any experience of renovating a house and available energy efficiency grants? I’m still not sure about selling my mother‘s house that I inherited. Or, renovate and let for future security. It’s a 1911 solidly built house and lot would need doing….heating, windows, insulation etc.

I’ve had some initial advice from energy advisors though the various grants sounds like a minefield. One advisor says definitely go for heat pump heating, another said no way….gas hybrid instead. I just didn’t want to be put off by the complexity just yet and regret selling.

Are the grants really worth it with all the strict requirements? Any words of wisdom would be much appreciated.

[Robinson100]

Morning Em,
as far as I know, energy efficiency grants are a local thing, so you would have to do a search of what is available in your area.
Where I am, even though for Munich there are grants available, here they are not......
Maybe talk to an installation company - they would surely know what/if anything is available in your region.

[HEM]

If you are going to sell the house don't put ANY money into it - you will never get that out again.

[Franklan]

If you are going to sell the house don't put ANY money into it - you will never get that out again.

Exactly, there are men who have two working hands and a son in law with two working hands as well and they see your house as an investment to gain a profit.

You spending money to tart up the place (by paying craftsmen) for a profit will not work out IMHO.

[ian]

Does anyone have any experience of renovating a house and available energy efficiency grants?

I'm getting grants for upgrades to the old house I just bought. But for selling, as they are saying, might not be worth upgrading. It can get crazy expensive. With the grants subtracted, you'll pay, Heat pump 20k, roof 40k, walls 30k, windows 30k, solar 10k. But, depending on the house, you could shift it quicker than an old tatty house with apparent problems. I paid enough less than the asking/market price, to almost cover upgrades. But I'm going to live in it, and get benefit from reduced monthly costs.

• For a heating upgrade, the heating company can set up the KfW grant for you. ~50% on a heat pump.
• For solar panels and batteries, in Munich there was a Munich city grant. Not sure if it's still available, or about other places. Installers can advise.
• For any insulation work, roof, doors, windows and walls, you can get a 20% BAFA grant, as long as you have an approved Energy Adviser. They don't so much give advice, but tell you the steps you need to do to get the grants. And approve any quotes you get from roofers and renovators. Renovators you will need to find yourself. Although there are many places online that will send your details out to all the renovators who will contact you. Renovators usually know a handy Energy Adviser if you need one too.

[Emkay]

Many thanks for all replies. I‘ve not gotten very far….Makler values range now from 299k to 499k. I’d guess 310 ish may be possible. Sanierungsberater estimations from 150k to 300k plus. One says definitely don’t go for heat pump, others say definitely do. A KFW loan now ca. 2,3% according to last advisor.

Sadly, I now may need to move there myself, with kiddo and cats….. If I sold, I couldn’t afford to buy anything else much newer, even if very much smaller. I’d likely struggle to rent anything with no DE income.

I’m seeing my bank’s energy advisor tomorrow. I really just need the absolute minimum as the house is decently habitable although they make it sound like it’s about to fall down due to age (114 years old). I phoned the Landesamt energy’s advisors and even they said it’s all so confusing just now that most people give up. There is existing double glazing though apparently needs to be triple glazed. And, there’s likely to be a draught through the outer solid stone window frames. My logic evaded me when I thought of kiddo’s former new build rental with triple glazing with non closing trickle vents. Traffic noise was very loud!

If only I could do more DIY myself…..never too late maybe

[Robinson100]

HI Emkay,
my friend actually installed new windows in the house we have been renovating, and he says that the cost of triple-glazing just isn´t worth it.
We/he installed doubled glazing with "wärme-schutz bedampfung" in our place, and says he would never go for triple-glazing.

Our place was built in 1896, and we can live here perfectly well, so just go ahead!!!

[kiplette]

That's my feeling - we lived in a hundred year old house with crappy double glazing and only a bit of roof insulation and it was fine. After all, your old Mum lived there OK, presumably. I think when you get Berater types in, they go for gold rather than the tarnished bronze most of us would be happy with.

You can add bits as you can afford them.

Maybe if you and your daughter are up for it, you can rent out a room or two. My Pa did that back in the day and it was quite fun.

[ian]

Yes. There might not be any need to do much. In my case I'm trying to keep my monthly bills down. Heating being the biggest.

Regarding heat pumps, you can look at the cost of installation and calculate how long it would take to pay back. For some people it's not worth it. I'm getting solar panels to shorten the payback time, and reduce dependence on any future price fluctuations. I need to replace my ancient oil heater and tank anyway. And as I have a renewable electricity supplier, the CO² reduction of a heat pump is huge. So for me, it's an easy decision. YMMV.

[Emkay]

Thanks so much for all replies. It really does seem like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear….I met with the bank‘s energy advisor today. He was very unpleasant and expected to start immediately with a Sanierungsfahrplan. Costs ca. 1600€. Some gets refunded. Absolutely no, I just wanted initial advice as to what subsidies might be available. He made a big dramatic show that one outer wall loses lots of heat and therefore needs outer insulation. Yet, over winter with the heating set to frost protection only with no noticeable heat from radiators, the inside temperature was always ca. 17 degrees. The walls are 40cm thick.

At least I gleaned that KFW loans are not the way as he said a house needs to be literally airtight. Ref. back to kiddo with trickle vents in triple glazing frames. She just stuck duct tape over the vents that she removed when she vacated her flat. All necessary measures from roof to cellar to qualify for grants. And, I’d unlikely get a loan with no DE income.

Heat pump heating also not a good idea as underfloor or ceiling heat distribution would need to be installed. Huge cost.

I don’t know if it’s even worth looking at other grants. BAFA, BEG etc. If they all need energy advisor‘s supervision for every step, does the price get hiked just to get a grant?

Next step will be to look into replacing the existing 1980‘s gas boiler with a new one, and windows without any grant. There’s a risk of gas not being supplied sometime in the future….like Mannheim are planning for 2035. Are old aluminium framed double glazed windows really ‘dead’ as was stated? No condensation nor draughty.

New roof….why? The roof slates were replaced mid 90’s. All perfectly in order with lots of spares. In the UK, I got roof insulation foam roll stuff. Made a big difference and didn’t cost much. It all seems very ‘hammer to crack a nut’ here!

Still none the wiser really…

[ian]

I'm not getting under floor heating installed. It's nice to have, and very efficient. But not at all necessary. Really old radiators are not very efficient though. And worth getting modern efficient ones. Some installers want 10k or more for the whole house. But I'm paying ~3.5k to replace all the old radiators.