German Tax software?

[Nixon]

Hello,

If I remember correctly, on the old TT site we had pinned topics that would contain most asked questions. One would be about a tax software that would be recommended, more than one if there is.
Do we have in Germany something that works simple and quickly, something like TaxAct in the US? I know of Elster, but last time I checked it it was just in German. I get it, we are in Germany, but is there one that is in English too, that works well and is affordable (German TaxAct)?

Thanks,

Nixon.

[Alberto]

Following the recommendation of a friend, last year I bought the tax software CD at Aldi, January, 5€. Eventually I used Elster like in past years (yes of course, only German language unfortunately, but so it is...).
But my mate was telling me this Aldi software was great.
I think they have it in store every January or so.

[Nixon]

My problem with Elster is translation, google or deepl are often not precise enough.
Doing it with a software that can provide correct explanations and then me going back to Elster to put numbers in would be a viable solution too.
Just to get to a list of programs that can do it and we are good to go.

[Alberto]

If language is so big of an obstacle, perhaps you need someone else to do it for you, either Stuerberater(in), better but more expensive, or Lohnsteuerhilfeverein, more economical but possibly not as good, and generally possible only if you're NOT a business.

[Nixon]

Yep, been there, done that.

Prior to 2022 two hilferin, not a nice experience. Their delivery fell far shorter from what they would promise to be able to do, even though they knew in advance what we would need.

Currently doing 2022 and 2023.
2022 with Lohi, again they knew in advance what our needs would be, but somehow they were wrong for 3.5K. And we are still not sure if they did it correctly. You should hear their boss at that particular office (a Steuerberater) not letting me asking questions during our conversation when we were trying to clarify issues. German communication at it's best, not

2023 Due to my wife being on a project in the US for 5 months, we are working with Ernst & Young. Her company is making us using them since two tax systems are involved, that is their standard procedure in this type of cases. E&Y proved to be so unorganized, losing/missing uploaded documents, multiple times we had to push them back for recalculations, switching people working with us, etc. It is some 10 months that we are working with them and it is a nightmare.

Pretty much lost confidence. Looked for Steuerberater/in but pretty much they are not accepting new clients or they don't want to deal with us since we are filing US taxes too. The only thing left is doing it by myself, so I know who is responsible for the process or a problem if it comes up.
Any software list available? Is it possible that there is no software for it in Germany? Hm, not that I would be surprised seeing how complicated German taxes are
When I google for it, all I am getting is expat websites offering their services. And it would be good to know if somebody had a personal experience with one (or more than one).

[Alberto]

Maybe you should persevere trying to find a Steuerberater. Presumably there's somewhere online a list of all registered Steuerberater in Germany..... maybe also including their languages....
I tried two, they were very good at their work.
Good luck.

[Alberto]

Presumably there's somewhere online a list of all registered Steuerberater in Germany..... maybe also including their languages....

like this:
https://www.steuerberater.de/

[Nixon]

Probably too late for current issues we have, but thanks!

So, except Aldi, anybody anything else?

[PandaMunich]

Presumably there's somewhere online a list of all registered Steuerberater in Germany..... maybe also including their languages....

Yes, look here for the "official" list based on data from the regional chambers of Steuerberater: https://www.datev.de/kasus/First/Start? ... e=&submit=

[PandaMunich]

Following the recommendation of a friend, last year I bought the tax software CD at Aldi, January, 5€. Eventually I used Elster like in past years (yes of course, only German language unfortunately, but so it is...).
But my mate was telling me this Aldi software was great.
I think they have it in store every January or so.

Yes, that one is a version of the "Buhl tax" software, i.e. of the best tax version on the market.
See here: https://www.computerbild.de/bestenliste ... 98803.html

• Aldi Tax 2024
  While the other products have the year of the tax return in their name, the tax software available from Aldi uses the assessment period as the version number. The next version is therefore called Aldi Steuer 2024 and is expected to be available from 27 December 2024 for 4.99 euros in Aldi shops and in the Aldi online shop. The package contains a limited version of the multiple price-performance winner Tax from Buhl, but there are differences:
  Those who want to send multiple tax returns need to be particularly careful. While Tax was able to send up to five returns, the Aldi version was only able to send three. And if you wanted to switch from Tax to the cheaper offshoot, you had to re-enter all the data - the data transfer from Tax was blocked there. There were also disadvantages for taxpayers who travelled by car for work. Compared to Tax, the Aldi programme lacked the important logbook function for sales representatives. Buyers also missed out on some of Tax's support features - such as the tax guide, the user forum and the tax newsletter.
  
  If you don't need all this, Aldi will probably offer you top software again, which even offers some additional functions compared to Tax. For example, the low-cost programme has so far created a business and VAT return including the necessary advance tax returns - not even the original can do that! In addition, Aldi Steuer recently had the Buhl functions ‘tax retrieval’ and ‘tax dispatch’ on board again for convenient data exchange with the tax office - Aldi customers used to need their own Elster certificate for this. Since 2023, you need a Buhl account to install Aldi Steuer, but this can be created quickly and free of charge.
  Conclusion: Insider tip for self-employed, be they freelancers or Gewerbetreibende.

[PandaMunich]

So, except Aldi, anybody anything else?

If you cannot do it in German, you are stuck with one of the more expensive, inferior products that have an English-language interface:

• https://www.smartsteuer.de/online/tax-return/
• https://www.steuergo.de/en
• https://wundertax.de/en/

[Frantic]

Hi Panda I am interested to know why you consider smartsteuer inferior to buhl. Since I am in Germany I use smartsteuer because it was free for employee of Haufe. Few years ago I wanted to have a look to other alternatives and buhl I guess was one of this but I remember at the end I found smartsteuer still the more complete for my needs.
Nevertheless keen to change it if there's better software on the market


PS : the English version of smartsteuer it's not native but machine translated

[PandaMunich]

I am interested to know why you consider smartsteuer inferior to buhl.

All the English-language options are less complete (do not offer all the tax forms, for all possible cases) and are not accurately translated.
--> better to do it in a German language software, if you can manage.

Besides, Smartsteuer is only browser-based, while I like to keep my data where I can back it up (= on my PC), not on someone else's cloud server.
Buhl offers both options, i.e. downloaded software (Buhl tax or WISO Steuer) and an online tax return in the browser (WISO Steuer), please see "Auf welchen Geräten kann ich WISO Steuer nutzen?": https://www.buhl.de/steuer/faq/

Regarding Buhl being best, that is not only my opinion, but also the result of many tests:

Stiftung Warentest's magazine "Finanztest" (I'm linking to a Spiegel article about the test, since the Finanztest article itself is behind a paywall): https://www-spiegel-de.translate.goog/n ... r_pto=wapp

2024-12-03 23_55_36-Steuer-Programme im Test_ Was taugen Wiso Steuer, Tax, Steuereasy, Quicksteuer, .jpg (74.7 KiB) Viewed 7021 times

• "None of the PC programmes tested made any major errors. All six were rated ‘good’ or ‘very good’ overall, and all of them passed the tax calculation with ‘very good’. Only the user guidance could be better for some of them.
  
  It's a different story with the browser solutions. Although there are also three that scored ‘good’ or ‘very good’ here - Wiso Steuer, Smartsteuer and Steuerfuchs - the testers found some drastic weaknesses in the other six. Wundertax and Taxando were even rated as ‘poor’ in terms of tax calculation and user guidance. The situation is very similar for the mobile apps.

https://www-computerbild-de.translate.g ... r_pto=wapp

2024-12-03 23_34_04-Steuerprogramme 2025_ Test der besten Steuersoftware für 2024 - COMPUTER BILD.jpg (219.81 KiB) Viewed 7021 times

https://www-steuersoftware--tests-de.tr ... r_pto=wapp

2024-12-03 23_35_04-Steuersoftware Test 2024 • TOP 8 Anbieter im Test & Vergleich.jpg (229.45 KiB) Viewed 7021 times

and of course my favourite source for easy-to-understand and still complete financial information, the Finanztip website: https://www-finanztip-de.translate.goog ... r_pto=wapp
Though they look only at "Buhl Tax", which is for employees.
They forget that there is also "Buhl Tax Professional", for the self-employed: https://www.buhl.de/produkte/tax/#20745

**********************************************************************

Price comparison of Buhl software for doing the 2024 tax return:

• Buhl tax 2025 (for employees), from 16.99€: https://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/Pr ... tax%202025
• Buhl tax Professional 2025 (for self-employed), from 36.99€: https://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/Pr ... nal%202025
  The 4.99€ Aldi software is a curtailed version of "Buhl tax Professional". You can import the Aldi software file into "Buhl tax", i.e. upgrade to the better version next year and save yourself having to type in all your data again, but you cannot import a "Buhl tax" file into the Aldi software.
• Buhl WISO 2025 (for both employees and self-employed), from 24.29€: https://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/Ma ... +WISO+2025

[HEM]

....

Besides, Smartsteuer is only browser-based, while I like to keep my data where I can back it up (= on my PC), not on someone else's cloud server.

Very wise (says he being a retired computer scientist).

TheCloud.gif (102.93 KiB) Viewed 6947 times

[Nixon]

Thank you Panda on your thorough explanation.

If steuersmart is a machine translation then it is not any better than having Buhl open in a web browser and doing translation on the page.

All of them are so cheap comparing to other options that the price itself should not make any impact on decision which one to buy.

Is Buhl for employees good enough for somebody that has:
1. Income from other countries? Is it double taxation aware?
2. Progressionsvorbehalt being applied on income from the US?
3. How about income from stock investments?

I have seen that Buhl PRO version is for self-employed or mini business owners. Just trying to separate them as options.

[PandaMunich]

Is Buhl for employees good enough for somebody that has:
1. Income from other countries? Is it double taxation aware?
2. Progressionsvorbehalt being applied on income from the US?
3. How about income from stock investments?

Yes.

[Nixon]

Thanks Panda.

Buhl should be good to go in that case.
Start doing it soon enough and pray