Unoccupied house insurance, water supply switch off and heating

[Emkay]

I’d really appreciate a bit of general advice as my technical know how is quite limited. My mother passed away last month and I’m now dealing with everything. I’m a bit stuck now in respect of the building insurance for her now unoccupied house.

When I first spoke to the house insurer, R & V, I was told that they wouldn’t continue to insure at all unless the water supply is switched off. OK, I understand that to a point. The house is just over 100 years old. However, over winter the 30+ old gas Vaillant heating will need to operate on minimum at least. It’s already known that the main timer is defective and cannot be changed. The insurer couldn’t explain what can be used and passed me around several departments. I might just have to find another insurer. Is it in principle possible to leave gas heating on without water supply switched on?….no hot water will be used. Any advice would be much appreciated.

[Franklan]

Couldn't you hire a 14y old girl from the neighborhood to do a 5 minute inspection walk through the house everyday after school?

You know, lamp post advertisement?

[Emkay]

Couldn't you hire a 14y old girl from the neighborhood to do a 5 minute inspection walk through the house everyday after school?

You know, lamp post advertisement?

Thank you Franklan. I was mainly worried about how the gas heating would work if the mains water supply is switched off. The insurance company wrote that all water related appliances, including heating, must be drained etc. After a lot of faffing, the insurance company finally confirmed that they ‘have’ to say this although of course, especially over winter, the heating needs to function fully. The main stipulation being that the house must be checked thoroughly several times a week. I asked them to email me this confirmation which they did.

In the event of a water related claim, a surveyor would be able to identify if a leak had been unnoticed for too long.

[Fraufruit]

May I ask, Emkay, if you plan on selling the house and, if so, when?

I look forward to the day when you can put all of this behind you.

[Emkay]

Thank you Fraufruit. I’m not sure what to do right now. I’ve only just got the Grundbuch changed. The house is just over 100 years old and has fallen into disrepair. Getting a Makler to come over is quite a challenge at the mo. I’m wondering if I could renovate it. Or, partly to potential increase sale value. I’ve seen that there are grants to replace windows etc. I guess not much would happen over winter.

Meanwhile, clearing generations of junk is keeping us very busy.

[Alberto]

I'm not 100% but I don't think the gas heating needs the water to be on.

Of course, the gas heating needs there be water in the radiatior etc, but this water is its closed own circuit.
I think you can just close the water to the house, and still have the heating on.

Ask here:
https://www.plumbingforums.com/

[Alberto]

Meanwhile, clearing generations of junk is keeping us very busy.

The old house we bought was fully of crap when it was handed to us. The demolition company requested the house to be "besenrein" before they could start demolishing it. So we had to empty completely. Everything was in, furnitures, old dirty socks, porcelaine, bottles of wine.
There are actually companies that can help, Entrümpelung, kleinanzeige is a good starting point.

But I understand maybe this is not what you're after, perhaps you want to check everything yourself, sounds like a very lengthy process. Good luck.

[Emkay]

Meanwhile, clearing generations of junk is keeping us very busy.

The old house we bought was fully of crap when it was handed to us. The demolition company requested the house to be "besenrein" before they could start demolishing it. So we had to empty completely. Everything was in, furnitures, old dirty socks, porcelaine, bottles of wine.
There are actually companies that can help, Entrümpelung, kleinanzeige is a good starting point.

But I understand maybe this is not what you're after, perhaps you want to check everything yourself, sounds like a very lengthy process. Good luck.

I’m mainly sorting the 2 floors of the main house. The cellar and outbuildings are a horror and I’d definitely need an entrümple company. I daren’t even go into the outbuilding as the structure isn’t safe. A long time ago, my mum was advised not to demolish as an existing building is more likely to gain planning permission for extension/renovation. All the neighbours have done this to make more living space.

[Alberto]

A long time ago, my mum was advised not to demolish as an existing building is more likely to gain planning permission for extension/renovation.

Yes of course this is always the alternative options. We decided to demolish and rebuild, and others would have preferred to renovate, fair enough.
But in any case, if you sell it will be a question for the next owner.

[Fraufruit]

It must be possible to have an appraiser come out and advise what to do with it. Give you some options.

When my parents died in the U.S., we took the few things we wanted. None of us needed anything. Then we had charities come out and haul off everything. I remember one church was involved.

[Emkay]

It must be possible to have an appraiser come out and advise what to do with it. Give you some options.

When my parents died in the U.S., we took the few things we wanted. None of us needed anything. Then we had charities come out and haul off everything. I remember one church was involved.

I’m waiting for 3 Makler to phone me back. We had our house valued last year and the Makler were pretty good advising us not to sell yet as interest rates are so high reducing the value a lot compared to 3 years earlier. I think that trend may now be changing? I just don’t know yet what’s best to do.

All of our family always bang on that property shouldn’t be sold unless there’s absolutely no choice. If I can keep general costs low, which they are now I’ve changed the heating from 320€ per month, the new year may be a different story.

I’m very grateful to my mum for leaving me her house. Whilst there’s an emotional attachment, every generation of my family have lived there since ca. 1900, I still need to be practical.

Unfortunately, near us, it’s really difficult to give anything to charities. Definitely no collections that I’ve found so far. We fill our car each time with Bauhof stuff and clothing containers. Kleinanzeigen helps for free items. Big next step will be getting containers direct. Pretty expensive it seems for mixed refuse.

For now, we’ll carry on faffing getting rid of stuff bit by bit. I wonder what the Makler will say…..

[Alberto]

the Makler were pretty good advising us not to sell yet as interest rates are so high reducing the value a lot compared to 3 years earlier.

Bad advice, actually.
Had you sold 3yr earlier, you could have saved some maintenance costs and invested in the stock market and earned more than 30%.
Did you really sell 3yr later for over 30% more than you would have sold earlier, thanks to the drop in mortgage rates? I doubt.

[Fraufruit]

All of our family always bang on that property shouldn’t be sold unless there’s absolutely no choice.

But it belongs to you. Are all of your family coming around now to help with the clearing, etc. What do they want the house for?

You get to decide and it might take you awhile. Give it some time.

[Franklan]

For now, we’ll carry on faffing getting rid of stuff bit by bit.

Hire a pensioner, preferably one with a car and a trailer.

[sam]

Interest rates are so high reducing the value a lot compared to 3 years earlier.

Interest rates are high compared to the weird post 2008 to COVID period but normal compared to all the rest of history... They could just as easily go up as down (as could property values).

Take your time family things are always hard, but don't leave the property empty for a decade.... Once the stuff is cleared out would it be possible to rent it out for a bit if you really can't part with it? Would defray the tax and other costs a bit.

[HEM]

I’m wondering if I could renovate it. Or, partly to potential increase sale value. I’ve seen that there are grants to replace windows etc.

I very much doubt that a possible increase sale value would cover the time, effort & funds you would need to put in.
Your renovations may well not meet the desires of a possible buyer.

[alma.freya]

I sold my half renovated house last year and the advice I received from forums, friends etc. was that I'd never increase the value by the same amount of money I spent on the renovation. Perhaps the property value would increase by 50% of the renovation cost. And that doesn't include the time and stress of the renovation itself which is considerable.

None of the 4 Makler we spoke with suggested we should continue with the renovation and then sell, or wait for better market conditions e.g. interest rates to drop. Like everyone else, it's impossible for a Makler to know what will happen to the housing market, interest rates etc. in the short or long term. Their interest is getting a buyer and a seller together in the Notar office and signing the purchase contract so the Makler can send their invoices and get paid.

I also had to handle the sale of my later mothers property in 2022. It was also the house I grew up in. After retrieving important documents and some other items I wanted to keep, I hired a company to clear the property. Cost £3k. The insurance company required the water stopcock to be turned off and the pipes drained, and someone to check the property once per week. We also turned off the gas heater and a plumber drained the heating system. It stood empty and cold from Jan 22 until the sale was complete in Feb 23.

Property is a liability and I'd recommend converting it to € as soon as possible and then deciding what to do with the money.

[alma.freya]

the Makler were pretty good advising us not to sell yet as interest rates are so high reducing the value a lot compared to 3 years earlier.

Bad advice, actually.
Had you sold 3yr earlier, you could have saved some maintenance costs and invested in the stock market and earned more than 30%.
Did you really sell 3yr later for over 30% more than you would have sold earlier, thanks to the drop in mortgage rates? I doubt.

I don't think OP had the opportunity to sell their mother's house 3 years ago as their mother died last month. I think the Makler just used "3 years earlier" as a reference because that's when interest rates were lower and the market for old unrenovated property was last at its peak.

(I'm not agreeing with the Maklers proposed strategy of waiting for better market conditions, I'm just adding some clarification).

[bethannbitt]

The insurance company required the water stopcock to be turned off and the pipes drained,

Well, I learn something new every day! You, one who is apparently separated from me by a common language, call the valve that shuts the spigot off a „stopcock“. I think we need a thread for English words.

P.S. I freely admit that the mechanical world is not my forte although I hail from an engineering family.

[Emkay]

I'm not 100% but I don't think the gas heating needs the water to be on.

Of course, the gas heating needs there be water in the radiatior etc, but this water is its closed own circuit.
I think you can just close the water to the house, and still have the heating on.

Ask here:
https://www.plumbingforums.com/

That’s correct, the water could be switched off in principle as the heating system is closed circuit. But, according to the advice from Vaillant direct, it’s not recommended for more than a short time as even older systems top up water supply automatically if the pressure get too low. I’m so glad the insurance company confirmed that the heating can be left on minimum. Especially now it’s getting colder….