Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

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Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by PandaMunich »

The proposed tax changes for 2025 were published in the Jahressteuergesetz 2024, see this Haufe article (which like all Haufe articles resists translation by GoogleTranslate): https://www.haufe.de/steuern/gesetzgebu ... 23320.html

**********************************************************************************************************

US pension plans (401k, IRA): from 01.01.2025, the whole withdrawal is taxable
Germany's highest financial court, the Bundesfinanzhof, had ruled in 2020 (BFH-Urteil vom 28. Oktober 2020, X R 29/18) that anyone who has an US pension plan (401k, IRA and so on) only has to tax the difference between what was paid out and what had been paid in (= the growth), if they hadn't profited from any German tax breaks on the contributions.
So basically, that they were allowed to have their cake and eat it too
The Bundesfinanzhof's argument had been that just because you got a tax break on the contributions in the USA, this does not allow Germany to tax the entire payout and that Germany is only allowed to tax the "growth".

Well, the BMF unfortunately noticed this and will introduce a change to § 25 Nr. 5 Satz 2 EStG from 01.01.2025, which will mean that even if you had tax breaks only in the USA, Germany will still make you tax 100% of the withdrawal from your US pension plan.

Ah well, it was nice as long as it lasted.

Here's the DeepL.com translation of the relevant part of the above Haufe article:
  • Benefits from foreign company pension schemes (Section 22 no. 5 sentence 2 EStG)

    Under current law, benefits from foreign company pension schemes are not subject to full deferred taxation in accordance with Section 22 no. 5 sentence 1 EStG even if the benefits to be taxed are based on contributions that were tax-privileged or tax-exempt abroad. In these constellations, there may be a better position compared to the standard domestic case if, for example, a tax exemption was granted for contributions in the foreign taxation and only the income (Section 22 no. 5 sentence 2 EStG) is taxed on the pension benefit in Germany (see BFH of 28.10.2020, X R 29/18, BStBl II 2021 p. 675). In order to avoid this preferential treatment, the law clarifies that not only a tax exemption of contributions for German taxation, but also a comparable tax exemption or preferential treatment of contributions for foreign taxation leads to benefits within the meaning of Section 22 no. 5 sentence 1 EStG.

    Entry into force: Applies from 1.1.2025 (Art. 45 para. 7 in conjunction with Art. 4 no. 4).
**********************************************************************************************************

Kleinunternehmer turnover limit rises to 25,000€
If your 2024 turnover that has a VAT location of "Germany" (so turnover you had from a non-German business client doesn't "count" towards the limit) was up to 25,000€, you are still a Kleinunternehmer in 2025.

Here's the DeepL.com translation of the relevant part of the above Haufe article:
  • Reform of the small business regulation (Sections 19 and 19a UStG)

    The new regulation serves to implement the so-called Small Business Directive (Directive (EU) 2020/285). Previously, only entrepreneurs based in Germany were able to make use of the small business regulation of Section 19 UStG in Germany. The new regulation also enables entrepreneurs based in the rest of the Community to apply the small business regulation in Germany.

    Section 19a UStG introduces a special notification procedure so that entrepreneurs based in Germany can claim the tax exemption in another member state. The BZSt is responsible for carrying out the reporting procedure and the cooperation with other member states required by EU law. The entrepreneur participating in the special reporting procedure must submit a turnover report for each calendar quarter in accordance with sec. 19a para. 3 UStG (new). This must be submitted to the BZSt within one month of the end of each calendar quarter exclusively by electronic means using the officially prescribed data set.

    The new sec. 19 para. 1 UStG exempts transactions carried out by domestic small businesses from VAT, thus introducing a genuine tax exemption (excluding input tax deduction), in contrast to the previous sec. 19 para. 1 UStG, according to which VAT is “not charged” for small businesses (which presupposes a basic tax liability). The prerequisite for exemption is that the total domestic turnover (Section 19 (2) UStG) did not exceed EUR 25,000 in the previous calendar year and does not exceed EUR 100,000 in the current calendar year.

    If the lower domestic threshold is exceeded in the current calendar year, the small business regulation can no longer be claimed in the following year. In principle, EU law requires that the tax exemption no longer applies if the lower domestic threshold is exceeded. However, the Member States may introduce an upper domestic threshold, up to which the small business scheme may continue to be applied in the current calendar year. In order to continue the small business regulation in the year in which it is exceeded in an unbureaucratic manner, use is made of the option under EU law to set the upper domestic limit at EUR 100,000. If the total turnover in the current calendar year exceeds the upper domestic limit of EUR 100,000, the small business regulation can no longer be applied from this point onwards.

    If the entrepreneur commences his commercial or professional activity, Section 19 (1) sentence 1 UStG must be applied with the proviso that the total turnover in the current calendar year does not exceed the amount of EUR 25,000. The turnover that exceeds the limit is already subject to standard taxation. The turnover generated up to the point at which the limit is exceeded is tax-free.

    The reformed small business regulation results in various consequential changes in other regulations (e.g. Sections 15, 15a UStG). In addition, a new Section 34a UStDV will be introduced in the UStDV for simplified invoices from small businesses (not to be confused with invoices for small amounts!).

    Entry into force: 1.1.2025.
Last edited by PandaMunich on Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by Bayrisch_Dude »

PandaMunich wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 1:04 am
Kleinunternehmer turnover limit rises to 25,000€
If your 2024 turnover that has a VAT location of "Germany" (so turnover you had from a non-German business client doesn't "count" towards the limit) was up to 25,000€, you are still a Kleinunternehmer in 2025.
Ja, cool! Thank you Panda!
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by Storamin »

PandaMunich wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 1:04 am The proposed tax changes for 2025 were published in the Jahressteuergesetz 2024, see this Haufe article (which like all Haufe articles resists translation by GoogleTranslate): https://www.haufe.de/steuern/gesetzgebu ... 23320.html

**********************************************************************************************************

US pension plans (401k, IRA): from 01.01.2025, the whole withdrawal is taxable
Germany's highest financial court, the Bundesfinanzhof, had ruled in 2020 (BFH-Urteil vom 28. Oktober 2020, X R 29/18) that anyone who has an US pension plan (401k, IRA and so on) only has to tax the difference between what was paid out and what had been paid in (= the growth), if they hadn't profited from any German tax breaks on the contributions.
So basically, that they were allowed to have their cake and eat it too
The Bundesfinanzhof's argument had been that just because you got a tax break on the contributions in the USA, this does not allow Germany to tax the entire payout and that Germany is only allowed to tax the "growth".

Well, the BMF unfortunately noticed this and will introduce a change to § 25 Nr. 5 Satz 2 EStG from 01.01.2025, which will mean that even if you had tax breaks only in the USA, Germany will still make you tax 100% of the withdrawal from your US pension plan.

Ah well, it was nice as long as it lasted.

Here's the DeepL.com translation of the relevant part of the above Haufe article:
  • Benefits from foreign company pension schemes (Section 22 no. 5 sentence 2 EStG)

    Under current law, benefits from foreign company pension schemes are not subject to full deferred taxation in accordance with Section 22 no. 5 sentence 1 EStG even if the benefits to be taxed are based on contributions that were tax-privileged or tax-exempt abroad. In these constellations, there may be a better position compared to the standard domestic case if, for example, a tax exemption was granted for contributions in the foreign taxation and only the income (Section 22 no. 5 sentence 2 EStG) is taxed on the pension benefit in Germany (see BFH of 28.10.2020, X R 29/18, BStBl II 2021 p. 675). In order to avoid this preferential treatment, the law clarifies that not only a tax exemption of contributions for German taxation, but also a comparable tax exemption or preferential treatment of contributions for foreign taxation leads to benefits within the meaning of Section 22 no. 5 sentence 1 EStG.
F***…that’s a kick.
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by bethannbitt »

Storamin wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 9:51 pm F***…that’s a kick.
Well, now one has to pay tax on 100% of the US pensions funds withdrawn while residing here in 🇩🇪 , just as one would have to pay tax on 100% of the US pension funds withdrawn while residing in the 🇺🇸. That was our expectation when retiring here. So we can’t really complain. We simply got a windfall for a few years.
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by kaffeemitmilch »

The German plan to keep people financially 'grounded', however reasonable their wealth, is working flawlessly.
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by Andy P »

I've just come across this thread.

I note that the first change is headed "US Pension Plans", but that the detailöd article refers to "foreign company pension schemes".

Would this also apply to a UK SIPP.

It's not a Company Pension scheme, but it's a private Pension arrangement that was tax-relievable in the UK.
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by Nixon »

How about changes on tax bracket values.
Just saw somewhere that 42% is becoming 45% and 45%>48%.

Is that now in place or just people talking about these changes?
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by PandaMunich »

Nixon wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 11:40 am How about changes on tax bracket values.
Just saw somewhere that 42% is becoming 45% and 45%>48%.

Is that now in place or just people talking about these changes?
Where?
It is not part of the proposal for the Jahressteuergesetz 2024.
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by PandaMunich »

The 20,000€ loss cap limit for "risky" capital transactions will be retroactively repealed all the way back to when it was first introduced in 2020. They had this loss cap in § 20 (6) Sätze 5 und 6 EStG (they introduced the limit as 10k€ in 2020 and then raised it to 20k€ from 2021): https://www-buzer-de.translate.goog/ges ... r_pto=wapp

Why?
Since they would have had to anyway, since Germany's highest financial court, the BFH (Bundesfinanzhof) had shot it down, by saying that they thought it is unconstitutional and had therefore kicked the matter to Germany's Constitutional Court, which would have shut it down for sure.

Article on this: https://www-rnd-de.translate.goog/wirts ... r_pto=wapp
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by Nixon »

I thought this thread is regarding general tax changes so I put the question here.
Just saw somewhere people talking about these percentage changes.
PandaMunich wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:27 pm
Nixon wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 11:40 am How about changes on tax bracket values.
Just saw somewhere that 42% is becoming 45% and 45%>48%.

Is that now in place or just people talking about these changes?
Where?
It is not part of the proposal for the Jahressteuergesetz 2024.
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by Andy P »

Andy P wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2024 12:35 pm I've just come across this thread.

I note that the first change is headed "US Pension Plans", but that the detailöd article refers to "foreign company pension schemes".

Would this also apply to a UK SIPP.

It's not a Company Pension scheme, but it's a private Pension arrangement that was tax-relievable in the UK.
As there hasn't yet been a reply to this, I've investigated a bit further.

The relevant phrase in the change to the law is "ausländische Versorgungseinrichtung".

As far as I can tell, Versorgungseinrichtung refers only to company pensions, and on that basis a SIPP, which is a private pension, would not be covered by the change, even though contributions are tax-relieved in the UK.

So payouts would continue to be taxed in Germany as a normal Investment fund, i.e. on Investment income, capital gains and with ETFs subject to Vorabpauschale.

This seems a bit illogical, but is my Interpretation correct?
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by Andy P »

I’m still a bit uncertain about this.

In my previous message, I concluded that the change as set out in law applies only to company pensions (my interpretation of Versorgungseinrichtung), and therefore should not apply to a UK SIPP.

However, PandaMunich’s original description says it applies to a US IRA. I’m not familiar with US pensions, but this would seem to me to be a private pension comparable to a SIPP in the UK.

I really don’t want to be in the position where there is any uncertainty about tax when I eventually cash in my SIPP.

I’d be very grateful if PandaMunich could comment on this specific point.
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by PandaMunich »

Andy P wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 3:44 pm I’m still a bit uncertain about this.

In my previous message, I concluded that the change as set out in law applies only to company pensions (my interpretation of Versorgungseinrichtung), and therefore should not apply to a UK SIPP.

However, PandaMunich’s original description says it applies to a US IRA. I’m not familiar with US pensions, but this would seem to me to be a private pension comparable to a SIPP in the UK.

I really don’t want to be in the position where there is any uncertainty about tax when I eventually cash in my SIPP.
The same rules apply to SIPP:
If you paid tax-relieved money into the SIPP, Germany will make you tax 100% of the payout under this new rule.

However, Germany only has the taxation rights on the SIPP if you paid in tax-relieved money for 15 years or less into the SIPP.

************************************************************************************************************

If you had paid in tax-relieved money for more than 15 years, then the UK has the taxation rights on the SIPP.
This is laid down in article 17 (3) of the double taxation agreement (DTA) between Germany and the UK: https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/ ... onFile&v=1
  • (3) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, such a
    pension, similar remuneration or annuity arising in a Contracting
    State which is attributable in whole or in part to contributions
    which, for more than 15 years in that State,
    a) did not form part of the taxable income from employment, or
    b) were tax-deductible, or
    c) were tax-relieved in some other way
    shall be taxable only in that State. This paragraph shall not
    apply if that State does not effectively tax the pension, other
    similar remuneration or annuity, or if the tax relief was clawed
    back for any reason, or if the 15 year condition is fulfilled in both
    Contracting States.
Under UK rules, you can withdraw 25% of the SIPP as a tax-free lump sum: https://www.onlinemoneyadvisor.co.uk/pe ... ithdrawal/
but this will however make you run awry of the "effectively taxed" rule in article 23 (1) a) of the DTA, which is a general subject-to-tax clause (in German: "allgemeine Rückfallklausel"):
  • (1) Tax shall be determined in the case of a resident of Germany as follows:
    a) There shall be exempted from the assessment basis of the
    German tax any item of income arising in the United Kingdom and any item of capital situated within the United Kingdom which, according to this Convention, is effectively taxed
    in the United Kingdom
    and is not dealt with in subparagraph b).
Since the UK will not tax the lump sum, this makes the taxation rights on it fall back to Germany.
--> you will end up having to tax the 25% lump sum in Germany, as income subject to the normal income tax rate of up to 42% (i.e. not as capital income which has a flat tax rate of 25%).

The other 75% of the SIPP will only be subject to the "lesser evil" of Progressionsvorbehalt because of article 23 (1) d) of the DTA, i.e. they will not be taxed again by Germany, but they will drive up your German income tax rate on your other income.
For an example with numbers of the effect of Progressionsvorbehalt, please scroll down to the section "Progressionsvorbehalt" in here: https://expertise.tax/en/faq-german-tax ... /#resident
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by GaryC »

Panda,

Are we comfortable with this split of 75% remaining taxable only in the UK and the tax-free 25% taxable only in Germany? I ask because I thought we had concluded that that it is not the case, and that the whole pension falls to be taxed only in Germany because the "effectively taxed" clause in Article 17(3) is not met, thus tainting the pension as a whole. This is somewhat different than the effectively taxed clause in Article 23...

I ask because I recently asked HMRC for their view on this but am yet to receive their view on the issue...

So, will the new rules make any difference to a UK SIPP whether paid into for more, or less, than 15 years?
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by PandaMunich »

GaryC wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2024 6:24 pm Are we comfortable with this split of 75% remaining taxable only in the UK and the tax-free 25% taxable only in Germany? I ask because I thought we had concluded that that it is not the case, and that the whole pension falls to be taxed only in Germany because the "effectively taxed" clause in Article 17(3) is not met, thus tainting the pension as a whole. This is somewhat different than the effectively taxed clause in Article 23...

I ask because I recently asked HMRC for their view on this but am yet to receive their view on the issue...
I always use the interpretation of the law that is more advantageous for my clients ;-)

Just think, for the "over 15 years tax-relieved in the UK cases", you start off with the 25% lump tax payout, that one will be taxed by Germany.
But the 75% payouts will happen at a different time, i.e. in another year.
--> these, the UK will tax, so Germany doesn't get to.
GaryC wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2024 6:24 pm So, will the new rules make any difference to a UK SIPP whether paid into for more, or less, than 15 years?
Yes, because without that new law, for the ones with up to 15 years UK tax relief, i.e. the ones on which Germany had the taxation rights, I had the latitude to simply consider the SIPP a brokerage account, do the income calculations yearly and thereby classify it as capital income subject to 25% Abgeltungssteuer.

All my clients with SIPP did not have a lot of capital income, so their yearly SIPP income was lower than the Sparerpauschbetrag, i.e. they actually got to use it and did not owe any extra tax because of the SIPP income.
The idea was that when they reached pension age, a part of the income in the SIPP would have been already taxed, at no discomfort to them and the rest would have also only been subject to 25% Abgeltungssteuer.

However, with this new clarification put into the law, the entire SIPP payouts will be taxable, i.e. there will be no "part of it has already been taxed" like I had planned, plus the payouts will be subject to an income tax rate of up to 42%.
So not nice at all.
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by Andy P »

PandaMunich wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2024 9:04 am The same rules apply to SIPP:
If you paid tax-relieved money into the SIPP, Germany will make you tax 100% of the payout under this new rule.
Thanks very much for clarifying this Panda.

So my optimistic interpretation of “Versorgungseinrichtung“ as not applying to a SIPP is wrong.

That Information has enabled me to decide what to do.

To confirm my interpretation, which may also be useful to others who have a UK SIPP or similar foreign pension, which is taxable in Germany:
  • If benefits are encashed before 31.12.2024, they will be taxed in Germany as a normal investment fund, i.e. only on the capital gain.
  • If benefits are encashed after 31.12.2024, they will be taxed in Germany in full as income.
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by PandaMunich »

Andy P wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2024 12:05 pm To confirm my interpretation, which may also be useful to others who have a UK SIPP or similar foreign pension, which is taxable in Germany:
  • If benefits are encashed before 31.12.2024, they will be taxed in Germany as a normal investment fund, i.e. only on the capital gain.
  • If benefits are encashed after 31.12.2024, they will be taxed in Germany in full as income.
Yes.
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by GaryC »

So, the different treatment of SIPPs compared to a UK workplace pension is that the former is treated (currently) as an investment fund, even though tax relief was given on contributions, whereas the latter is "just" a pension first and foremost, so is treated as a whole for Article 17(3) purposes.
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by Andy P »

PandaMunich wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2024 4:34 pm
Andy P wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2024 12:05 pm To confirm my interpretation, which may also be useful to others who have a UK SIPP or similar foreign pension, which is taxable in Germany:
  • If benefits are encashed before 31.12.2024, they will be taxed in Germany as a normal investment fund, i.e. only on the capital gain.
  • If benefits are encashed after 31.12.2024, they will be taxed in Germany in full as income.
Yes.
Thanks Panda.

One further question:

If I keep my existing SIPP until I die, and the Investments within it then pass automatically to someone in the UK, am I right in thinking that this would be subject to inheritance tax in Germany but not income tax in Germany.

I'm aware that it would be subject to income tax in the UK when encashed (if I die aged 75 or more) and under the new Budget proposals also subject to inhertance tax in the UK.
GaryC wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2024 5:40 pm So, the different treatment of SIPPs compared to a UK workplace pension is that the former is treated (currently) as an investment fund, even though tax relief was given on contributions, whereas the latter is "just" a pension first and foremost, so is treated as a whole for Article 17(3) purposes.
I think a SIPP is clearly a Pension under the Double Taxation Agreement, so under the existing rules I guess Germany classifies it as a Pension which is not taxed as such.
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Re: Proposed tax changes from 01.01.2025 (Jahressteuergesetz 2024)

Post by GaryC »

I think a SIPP is clearly a Pension under the Double Taxation Agreement, so under the existing rules I guess Germany classifies it as a Pension which is not taxed as such.
And just when I thought I was getting my head round this stuff. So glad I don't have a SIPP, lol
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