Selling house through Makler…..what to expect

[Emkay]

I’m not sure if I’m overthinking this whole thing regarding Makler….Any advice would be much appreciated.

I’m selling my mother’s house and a Makler was recommended to me by a trusted acquaintance. He visited briefly to view the house and then again a few days later for an informal viewing by a family that missed out on another property he had just sold. I did agree to this viewing though on the basis that no formal contract/selling fees had been agreed on. It was more a question of the location being a possibility for the buyer.

He offered to include the plan drawings and Energie Ausweis in his fee or, I could pay directly to the issuers. I chose the latter as I wanted to own the documents. No fee nor contract has yet been agreed.

When I mentioned that I have 3 other interested parties, he was quite disgruntled saying he’d already invested a lot of time and that I should forward the prospective buyers to him as he can arrange finance etc. He also said he found this ‘nicht schön‘. I just said that the interested parties are through my own acquaintances, my mother’s and the church. Sure, he visited twice (local) and hand wrote a valuation on a scrap of paper.

As a contract is on the horizon soon, what would normal terms be if sold to an acquaintance? Many thanks in advance for any advice.

[alma.freya]

When I mentioned that I have 3 other interested parties, he was quite disgruntled saying he’d already invested a lot of time and that I should forward the prospective buyers to him as he can arrange finance etc. He also said he found this ‘nicht schön‘. I just said that the interested parties are through my own acquaintances, my mother’s and the church. Sure, he visited twice (local) and hand wrote a valuation on a scrap of paper.

As a contract is on the horizon soon, what would normal terms be if sold to an acquaintance? Many thanks in advance for any advice.

The Makler will likely recommended a contract that includes exclusive rights to sell your property for a period of x months (3-6 months is common). If you find a buyer yourself e.g. an acquaintance, you will be required by law to send the acquaintance to the Makler. This guarantees the Makler receives their commission.

The Makler is a salesman and he is selling his services to you. That's how he makes his money; by getting you to give him exclusive selling rights to your property and then taking a comission. How do you value his service so far?

• Lying to you about "investing a lot of time" when all he has done is visit your property twice.
• Writing a valuation on a scrap of paper instead of providing a detailed report on your property value (I received 4 of these when meeting with prospective Makler to sell my property).
• Failing to present you with a contract for his services, yet acting like he is already entitled to sell your property.
• Acting disgruntled because you mentioned you have found other potential buyers yourself.
• Trying to guilt you in to using his services by telling you what you are doing is "nicht schön"

Is this guy even a real Makler, or the nephew of the person who recommended him? I find everything very unprofessional.

If you haven't already signed a contract with him then he is entitled to nothing (despite him acting otherwise). If a Makler treated my this like I'd tell them I'm not interested in their services and find another Makler (there are plenty who will happily take your business).

Furthermore, if you already have some interested parties, you don't need a Makler. You just need to agree on a price and visit a Notar together to discuss the purchase contract.

[alma.freya]

Emkay, I have it in my mind that you are a woman? (you have made reference to your husband in the past so I am making an assumption here, forgive me if I am wrong).

It's also worth considering if the treatment you are receiving is due to your gender. Every woman I know has stories where professionals have been condescending, dismissive, only wanting to deal with the man of the house etc.

[Emkay]

Emkay, I have it in my mind that you are a woman? (you have made reference to your husband in the past so I am making an assumption here, forgive me if I am wrong).

It's also worth considering if the treatment you are receiving is due to your gender. Every woman I know has stories where professionals have been condescending, dismissive, only wanting to deal with the man of the house etc.

Thank you for your replies. I’m probably not overthinking this as I thought I might be….too many red flags so far.

You’re quite right regarding gender treatment. The first 2 male Makler that my husband and I met, only spoke to my husband. I could barely even ask a question. My husband constantly had to refer them back to me saying that I‘m the owner, not him. They even emailed my husband with formal valuations. This latest one seemed better though seemingly not so good after all.

[Alberto]

I would not hire this particular Makler either.

[Alberto]

he can arrange finance etc.

this is a joke.
There are more than enough finance professionals around to whom they buyers can go, no need for the Makler to send them to their mate.

[Emkay]

When I mentioned that I have 3 other interested parties, he was quite disgruntled saying he’d already invested a lot of time and that I should forward the prospective buyers to him as he can arrange finance etc. He also said he found this ‘nicht schön‘. I just said that the interested parties are through my own acquaintances, my mother’s and the church. Sure, he visited twice (local) and hand wrote a valuation on a scrap of paper.

As a contract is on the horizon soon, what would normal terms be if sold to an acquaintance? Many thanks in advance for any advice.

If you find a buyer yourself e.g. an acquaintance, you will be required by law to send the acquaintance to the Makler. This guarantees the Makler receives their commission.

Just to clarify, if I had interested buyers before even contacting the Makler in question, I’m NOT required to forward them to the Makler…..especially as there’s no contract in place? Seems that the Makler is ‘nicht schön‘, not me?

[Alberto]

Just to clarify, if I have interested buyers before even contacting the Makler in question, I’m NOT required to forward them to the Makler…..especially as there’s no contract in place? Seems that the Makler is ‘nicht schön‘, not me?

I think you are right.

If you really do have buyers already, I would NOT sign the contract at all with the Makler.
On the other hand, there could well be people expressing interest in buying, only to change their mind later on. In which case not having signed with the buyer made you lose time.

Some vendors get excited about selling withOUT Makler, this way they think they net more because there is no Makler fee to pay. I think this is wrong. Not so much because the Makler has possibly better negotiating skills than the vendor, so manages to push for a higher price, but rather he has better skills at making the property known to a broader audience, so by exposing it to a larger market he simply stands chance to sell for more.

Like most people I also dislike Maklers. Just greasy, greedy, fake smiles, unpleasant liers. Yet if I were to sell, I would hire one.

[Emkay]

Just to clarify, if I have interested buyers before even contacting the Makler in question, I’m NOT required to forward them to the Makler…..especially as there’s no contract in place? Seems that the Makler is ‘nicht schön‘, not me?

I think you are right.

If you really do have buyers already, I would NOT sign the contract at all with the Makler.
On the other hand, there could well be people expressing interest in buying, only to change their mind later on. In which case not having signed with the buyer made you lose time.

Some vendors get excited about selling withOUT Makler, this way they think they net more because there is no Makler fee to pay. I think this is wrong. Not so much because the Makler has possibly better negotiating skills than the vendor, so manages to push for a higher price, but rather he has better skills at making the property known to a broader audience, so by exposing it to a larger market he simply stands chance to sell for more.

Like most people I also dislike Maklers. Just greasy, greedy, fake smiles, unpleasant liers. Yet if I were to sell, I would hire one.

I’m more than happy to sell through a Makler though this situation seems a bit off. The private interested buyers I’ve gotten so far seem possibly unlikely. I’d also be happy to forward these to a Makler though this Makler wouldn’t tell me what the seller and buyer commission would likely be. I don’t know selling legalities so need a good Makler. Maybe another red flag is that he valued ca.100k more than the first 2 Maklers we met with. I don’t need unrealistic prices. I think I’ll contact the local Von Poll to ask them for a valuation.

[alma.freya]

When I mentioned that I have 3 other interested parties, he was quite disgruntled saying he’d already invested a lot of time and that I should forward the prospective buyers to him as he can arrange finance etc. He also said he found this ‘nicht schön‘. I just said that the interested parties are through my own acquaintances, my mother’s and the church. Sure, he visited twice (local) and hand wrote a valuation on a scrap of paper.

As a contract is on the horizon soon, what would normal terms be if sold to an acquaintance? Many thanks in advance for any advice.

If you find a buyer yourself e.g. an acquaintance, you will be required by law to send the acquaintance to the Makler. This guarantees the Makler receives their commission.

Just to clarify, if I had interested buyers before even contacting the Makler in question, I’m NOT required to forward them to the Makler…..especially as there’s no contract in place? Seems that the Makler is ‘nicht schön‘, not me?

Correct.

If you had a contract, he wouldn't be saying nicht schön, he'd be contacting his lawyer.

He should be able to tell you the commission rates upfront; they are determined by law.

100k valuation over other Makler suggests he is using a greed tactic to acquire your business. When no one makes an offer the price will be reduced, damaging the reputation of your property to prospective buyers (because everyone can see the price reduction on the property websites)

[alma.freya]

I don’t know selling legalities so need a good Makler.

I wouldn't trust the Makler to know these either. That's what the Notar is for.

I sold this year using a Makler. I received valuations from 4 that included detailed reports of the property and market, information about commission, sale prospects. They were all very upfront and transparent.

[Alberto]

this Makler wouldn’t tell me what the seller and buyer commission

Is this true? Seems unrealistic. This guy wants to work for you but he refuses to tell his price.....?

Maybe another red flag is that he valued ca.100k more than the first 2 Maklers

Yes, red flag

[Eric7]

We sold at the start of last year without a Makler and it really couldn't have been easier.

There was a stream of slimy so-called professionals who answered our advert on Immoscout, which specifically mentioned that we were selling "von Privat". All of them wanted to take on selling the house and all of them said we were aiming too high with the price. Taking into account the commission (buyer and seller paying!) and the reduced price, we would have been miles worse off going with one of them.
I wouldn't necessarily expect a Makler to negotiate a higher price anyway. They are mostly interested in getting rid of the property as soon as possible and moving onto the next one. Getting 3% of €500k quickly is better than 3% of €600k but it taking ages.

We have one arrogant Maklerin who came round even though we told her we weren't interested. She claimed they could present the house much better than we have done so far. I'm a hobby photographer and took what I considered to be a set of really nice photos while the house was fully furnished with nice, tasteful furniture. The house had since been completely emptied and had literally nothing in it. I asked her how could they make it look more attractive than in the existing photos and her answer was just that they had a really good photographer.

I would try first with the interested parties than you already have. If they don't work out, you can always go to a Makler.

A few things I would look out for:
• You need to know the commission up front, that is a must.
• Avoid long periods of exclusivity. Some Makler will hang onto a property even if it isn't selling and just let it sit there with no interest knowing you can't go anywhere else.
• Expect to have to do lots of the running around getting documents yourself. If it isn't specified in the Makler contract then they won't do it.
• Beware of the Makler colluding with a buyer than they know. When we bought the house (through a Makler), we later found out that he was friends with the sellers so wasn't completely neutral in negotiations. The prospect of this happening again really put us off using one.

I would never use one again, but everyone's situation is different.

Good luck!

[Alberto]

We sold at the start of last year without a Makler and it really couldn't have been easier.

Just curious, what was your initial asking price, how much did the Makler evaluated it, and how much did you finally sell it for?
If I can ask.....

Beside, I'm afraid I agree with "the Makler like a fast 3% of 500k better than a slow 3% of 600k". Pity this is not always best for you, the vendor. We experienced it first hand when we sold in England, we were greedy with our asking price and when the offers started to come the agent made very huge pressure on us to accept the lower price. Very distressing.

[Nixon]

Isn‘t it that the commission of 3% is to be split between seller and buyer, or each is paying that much?

We sold at the start of last year without a Makler and it really couldn't have been easier.

There was a stream of slimy so-called professionals who answered our advert on Immoscout, which specifically mentioned that we were selling "von Privat". All of them wanted to take on selling the house and all of them said we were aiming too high with the price. Taking into account the commission (buyer and seller paying!) and the reduced price, we would have been miles worse off going with one of them.
I wouldn't necessarily expect a Makler to negotiate a higher price anyway. They are mostly interested in getting rid of the property as soon as possible and moving onto the next one. Getting 3% of €500k quickly is better than 3% of €600k but it taking ages.

We have one arrogant Maklerin who came round even though we told her we weren't interested. She claimed they could present the house much better than we have done so far. I'm a hobby photographer and took what I considered to be a set of really nice photos while the house was fully furnished with nice, tasteful furniture. The house had since been completely emptied and had literally nothing in it. I asked her how could they make it look more attractive than in the existing photos and her answer was just that they had a really good photographer.

I would try first with the interested parties than you already have. If they don't work out, you can always go to a Makler.

A few things I would look out for:
• You need to know the commission up front, that is a must.
• Avoid long periods of exclusivity. Some Makler will hang onto a property even if it isn't selling and just let it sit there with no interest knowing you can't go anywhere else.
• Expect to have to do lots of the running around getting documents yourself. If it isn't specified in the Makler contract then they won't do it.
• Beware of the Makler colluding with a buyer than they know. When we bought the house (through a Makler), we later found out that he was friends with the sellers so wasn't completely neutral in negotiations. The prospect of this happening again really put us off using one.

I would never use one again, but everyone's situation is different.

Good luck!

[PandaMunich]

Isn‘t it that the commission of 3% is to be split between seller and buyer, or each is paying that much?

Before they introduced the law that the real estate agent cannot charge the buyer more than the seller, the commission was 3.57% (= 3% + 19% VAT, for example), paid only by the buyer.
After the law was introduced, the buyer still paid 3.57%, but suddenly, the seller also had to pay 3.57%: https://www-finanz--forum-de.translate. ... r_pto=wapp

--> the letter of the law is fulfilled, but that hadn't been the intention of the law.
The intention had been to halve the commission the buyer had to pay.

[Alberto]

Before they introduced the law that the real estate agent cannot charge the buyer more than the seller, the commission was 3.57% (= 3% + 19% VAT, for example), paid only by the buyer.
After the law was introduced, the buyer still paid 3.57%, but suddenly, the seller also had to pay 3.57%: https://www-finanz--forum-de.translate. ... r_pto=wapp

--> the letter of the law is fulfilled, but that hadn't been the intention of the law.
The intention had been to halve the commission the buyer had to pay.

Doesn't the law set an upper limit to the overall commission, as much as it did before the change? This is I what always thought.
If so, if it was a perfect market, it would self regulate...

[Nixon]

So it got high like in the US?
That was exact what came to my mind when I read that new law.

[PandaMunich]

Doesn't the law set an upper limit to the overall commission, as much as it did before the change? This is I what always thought.

No, for sales there never was an upper limit to the real estate agent/broker commission.
The commission for a real estate sale is regulated in the German Civil Code (BGB = Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch), but nowhere in there is there a limit: https://www.haufe.de/immobilien/wirtsch ... 00542.html
Please see here for that section of the BGB in English: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/engl ... html#p3530

For rentals, there is a limit of 2 monthly cold rents, plus 19% VAT, i.e. 2.38 cold rents, see § 3 (2) WoVermRG: https://www-gesetze--im--internet-de.tr ... r_pto=wapp

[Eric7]

We sold at the start of last year without a Makler and it really couldn't have been easier.

Just curious, what was your initial asking price, how much did the Makler evaluated it, and how much did you finally sell it for?
If I can ask.....

Beside, I'm afraid I agree with "the Makler like a fast 3% of 500k better than a slow 3% of 600k". Pity this is not always best for you, the vendor. We experienced it first hand when we sold in England, we were greedy with our asking price and when the offers started to come the agent made very huge pressure on us to accept the lower price. Very distressing.

Initially we made a mistake by advertising the house as "open to offers". We had been told by a Makler 2 years previously that he would value the house at around €900k but it could be anything up to €1.2m. Since then the market had dipped so we had no real idea of what was realistic.
Needless to say, there was practically no response.
We then re-advertised at just under €780k. Lots of interest from Maklers but no concrete interest from private buyers for a while. Valuations from Maklers went from €630k to €750k. We had an offer from private at around €700k but they were being messed around by their bank and it eventually came to nothing. Another family offered more but after what seemed like ages they also got turned down by their bank. It was when the interest rates were shooting up so potential buyers could suddenly not afford what they could before. After around 3 months, a single guy in his 50's came round to see the house for 20 minutes, and said he wanted it. There was no negotiation and he paid the full asking price. We only saw him twice more, once at the Notar and once to give him the keys. Quite bizarre really!