Gymnasium 8th grade voluntary Wiederholung

[Alberto]

Our 14yo is in gymnasium, 8th grade. Zeugnis were bad last year (5 in french and history, she moved up nevertheless, just..) and this year is going to be even worse: 5 in french, 5+ in maths and history.
I would like to ignore french (zweite Fremdsprahce, or 5th language, depending how you count), and maybe even history (nobody ever was worse than me at history, I still got a PhD in record time). But unfortunately it's true that her Leistung, all considered, is very bad.

Part of the reason she struggled is that she has been suffering with depression the last 3yr.

The school "strongly suggests" we opt for voluntary Wiederholung. She's strongly against, as a matter of pride, she's scared to be labeled "the stupid one", and to lose the ONE friend she has in class.
On the other hand if she moves forward, having accumulated so much deficits, it will be even less realistic that she can cope with the grade 9. And moving forward would be "on probation": if by Feb 2025 she has not levelled up they would send her back from 9th to 8th grade.

Another option, which also nobody favors, is that she moves to a less demanding school, Realschule or the like.

Comments?
Thanks,

[Franklan]

[..] she's scared to be labeled "the stupid one" [..]

Tough shit, but she *is* labeled "the stupid one", that's what Zeugnis is about.

Not being labeled "the stupid one" translates to "not having a 5 on the Zeugnis".

The goal must be to get rid of those 5, make a list of options on how to achieve that and let her make a choice.

Obviously, the option "I give a shit what the teachers think and they can wipe their arses with the Zeugnis" is not on that list.

This is a little bit "framing", yes, but some kind of "changing" is required in a situation like that.

[Eric7]

Another option, which also nobody favors, is that she moves to a less demanding school, Realschule or the like.

Comments?
Thanks,

Regardless of it being the option that nobody favours, it is actually usually the best option in cases like this.

Being held back in the same school can be humiliating (especially if she only has one friend) and continuing to struggle may just kill her desire to continue her studies past 9th grade (and you don't want that!).

Clinging onto Gymnasium is usually more to do with the parent's pride rather than that of the student.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Realschule and all the same opportunities for her future will still be available, it may just take an extra year or two to get there (no big deal).

[pappnase]

Part of the reason she struggled is that she has been suffering with depression the last 3yr.

There is lots of advice here about school/grades etc but I wanted to focus in on this bit. The question here is has she been struggling because she is depressed or has she been depressed because she is failing and doesn't have many friends?

I don't know if you are using 'depression' in a clinical sense. as in an official diagnosis, or if you are just assessing that for yourself, but depression is pretty serious and you should/could be discussing this with a professional.

The single most important thing here is your kids mental health, if they are held back a year or if they change to a different school then these are fairly common things and they can get through it if their head is in the right place, but if they have no coping strategies of their own to cope with the things that are making them depressed, they won't thrive anywhere.

Do what you need to do tother to keep a holding pattern with regards the education, and get their mental health sorted first.

[Alberto]

Thanks everyone for the useful comments

[Emkay]

It’s a very difficult situation for your daughter and for you as parents. I recall some of your previous posts from TT on the matter of your daughter’s educational struggles etc. Did these struggles have any influence on her depression? Did you get family counselling? If so, your counsellor could possibly help with this situation.

Old TT was full of threads that highlighted how difficult gymnasium really can be. More so in some parts of Germany. Additional parental pressure to succeed makes life even more difficult for a young teen. Some kids are just not as academic as their parents. They are possibly far more creative though.

I only know of stories that my daughter told me from her time at gymnasium. She left in 2020 after Abitur. Generally, going back a year is not shameful. It can be a huge benefit if gymnasium is really the right type of school. My daughter restarted the 5th year. Huge benefit to her as the teachers were a much nicer lot and she made lovely new friends as her German had improved a lot. She kept a few friends from her former class though their time together was generally out of school.

Kids that were overburdened with school and home life sometimes resorted to self harm, unsavoury social circles etc.

Other kids did change to a different level school. Seemingly, this was really a good step. They all still kept in touch. Some even changed school in the last year before Abitur.

I’d say that my daughter mainly managed to get through gymnasium as we didn’t pressure her at all. We trusted her to organise her time to make sure her homework and test revision was done properly and in time.

She struggled with a few subjects….french, maths physics. Nachhilfe helped tremendously. It cost quite a lot though Nachhilfe is a very common necessity here. Also, absolutely no shame. Her German Nachhilfe tutor changed from German tuition to maths and physics after around age 14. The tutor could also help with specific homework and revision such as history. No kids then ever got a 1 or 2 in history tests. No idea what the marking criteria was back then? French was hopeless though she quit that subject around age 15-16. Pre Abitur Phase. Physics was dropped too. Those were very happy days!

Every kid is different, even those with academic parents. Just one example, we have friends who are both surgeons. They have 4 kids….2 have gone into medical professions, the other 2 are pursuing dancing, music, art. The loveliest thing I always thought about our friends is that they let their kids find their own direction.

A few mild bribes don’t hurt either….my husband and my dad promised to give my daughter 10€ for every 1 test result. 5€ for a 2. A nice little motivator! She was more than happy with her extra income as well a normal unconditional pocket money.

Good luck

[dstanners]

That's a tough one. Our oldest (yr 7 at gymnasium) is no stranger to picking up 4s (and even the occasional 5 in German), so this is a topic we have considered a few times too. Whilst I certainly can't claim to have the answers, I hope it might help if I share a few of my thoughts.

Firstly, she ISN'T "the stupid kid" or a stupid kid. She certainly won't be the only kid in her class getting marks which make her or you consider whether she is in the right class or school (even though it might feel that way for her). Typically there are several kids in a class who might be at risk of not passing the year. All kids are more focussed on their own grades, they won't be too fussed about your daughter's. Also, don't forget gymnasiums are tough. A good friend of mine is a professor who is literally a rocket scientist (for the European Space Agency)...he re-sat and then dropped out of gymnasium altogether. Obviously he wasn't bad at learning, just a late bloomer.

Can the grades be improved?

Schools are obliged to offer assistance to kids struggling to succeed in a year. If the school hasn't already offered this, ask them what their Foerderunterricht offerings are, and when/how your daughter can participate. As an absolute minimum, I'm sure the teachers may be able to recommend some Q1 kids who are willing to offer lessons.

Is your daughter actively participating in lessons? A 5 can become a 4 or 3 if she plays an active role. This is something my oldest really struggles with (his teacher gave him a 3 for his oral mark in English because he didn't join in, even though he speaks better English than her). If she doesn't like being seen to try too hard, then ask her to get 5 pens out at the start of the lesson, and put one away each time she asks or answers a question. It doesn't seem to matter if they answer correctly - the teachers just like to know they are participating. The more interest she can muster in any subject, the better too. German teachers seem to like swatty kids, and are unfamiliar with the expression, "empty vessels make the most noise".
Speak to the teachers of the difficult subjects (with your daughter).

I'm sure several people will disagree with my approach here, but one thing which has helped kid 1 with German (famous last words, as a result is pending), is me helping him focus preparation on basic skills to answer likely questions in a way that should get him a 3, and not bothering with the extra bits geared for a grade 1. A 3 isn't a bad grade, particularly in years 5-9. Do you really want your kid struggling with extra lessons for hours a day for a result which at the end of the day makes no difference to their school outcome, or just to get a "good enough" mark in a reasonable period of time, so they can enjoy the rest of their day.

What are her strengths?

You mentioned the subjects she is bad in, but not those in which she is doing well - as she must be in order to have an Ausgleich for the 5s. Are they very technical subjects, or more practical (sport, music as opposed to chemistry or physics)? If her strengths lie towards the more practical subjects, it would be worth considering a change of school.

Social issues.

You said she only has 1 friend. Does she struggle making friends, or is it just that she's in an unfriendly class (perhaps with friends in parallel classes or outside of school)? A lack of friends in one class makes it less significant to drop down a year, or change to Real.

I can't remember if you were a Brit or US, but one thing I have noticed is that there is a lot less stigma in Germany about dropping down a year or even school, than there would be in the UK. My kids have friends who have done both.

Finally, take a look at your local Realschule. Our local one is very good. It may be a way for your daughter to feel less pressure. Don't forget, once she's done at Realschule she can always go back to a Gymnasium to get an Abi.

Good luck.

[LeonG]

It sounds like she would want the option to stay in gymnasium and move on to 9th grade. As you know, it will not be easy. Bad grades mean less foundation to build on for next year so it will only get harder. If you allow this option, you need to tell her that it's her very last chance and that she needs to work harder. If she's not already getting nachhilfe, get it for her. Help her study and help her identify likely test questions. Also go over test taking skills such as reading through the test and starting with the easy questions. I see summer school in her near future.

Aside from switching to realschule, there are other options such as gesamtschule where she could do the realschule graduation and then continue to abitur if she is doing better then and wants to. There might also be the option of repeating 8th grade at another gymnasium so stay in gymnasium but without feeling shame about everybody knowing she was held back.

[kiplette]

dstanner's point about Mündliche is a biggie. Kid#4 scraped a very scrapy Abi largely because he didn't really join in. He eventually learned to do the minimum, therefore the pass, but in his group of sweaty gaming lads, 4 had to repeat at the end and 3 didn't make it the second time around because they literally wouldn't put their hands up. In a system where continuous assessment of involvement in every lesson is part of the overall grade, you have to be seen to join in, using all the tips others have mentioned.

You mentioned previously about her maybe taking a year out in Japan - might that help? She'd be doing something different, getting some skills, and could come back to a different year group/school with no stigma attached.

[Robinson100]

Just wondering if there is another Gymnasium in your area? If so, would it be an option for your child to go there, into the 8th grade?

In my experience, there are Gymnasiums that care about the child developing into a happy, normal person, and there are those who are only interested in how the child performs. Maybe, from that point of view, your child is simply in the wrong school?

I recall when Shorty was in the 6th grade, being "invited" for a chat with her class teacher, who was also her Maths teacher. The teacher actually asked my why on earth Shorty was even attending a Gymnasium?!

Turned out, after lots of tests and stuff, that she has an attention deficit, ADHD, and without the help of medication, cannot concentrate for more than a couple of minutes!

Shorty is currently in training to be a Maths and English teacher for Gymnasium, and from what she tells me, there is no mention during all this training of how to spot a child that is struggling to concentrate, or indeed, what help might be available for anybody who is struggling.

Just saying, it "might" be worth having your child tested to see where s/he is on the spectrum.