Let's talk about EV's

[Alberto]

On the enviromental aspect of EV.....

Let's pretend EV are indeed cleaner than ICE. Which maybe it's even true, I don't know and I don't care, but for sure they're not greener than my bicycles, and also not greener than my cheap and crappy ICE that drives 3000km/yr.

You remember the argument that seatbelts do NOT make motorists safer?
It goes like this: because seatbelts do give a better sense of safety, people are more willing to take risks. So although yes, in a crash at a given speed you suffer less with a seatbelts, if you wear a seatbelt in the first place the crash is more likely to be faster. Which of the two aspects dominates (the crash at same speed causes less damage, OR the crash probably will be at greater speed) I honestly do not know. So ultimately it's not at all obvious if seatbelts make motorists safer or not.

Going to EV and enviroment: I see the potential that some motorists before were trying to limit the car usage, for enviromental reasons, whereas after switching to EV they no longer feel the need to "after all EV pollute so much less" so they drive more so ....

Beside, let's not forget that apart from burning fossils the manufacturing of cars (well, the manufacturing of anything) does come at an enviromental cost. Despite many saying "if I keep my Porsche parked it does harm the climate"

[Fraufruit]

not greener than my cheap and crappy ICE that drives 3000km/yr.

Did you read the article I put up?

[Krieg]

I don't think that argument about seatbelts holds because an accident most times does not depend only of my own decisions. I guess it will work better on bicycle helmets, for which I heard that argument first, but I still do not really buy it. I wear a helmet on a bicycle maybe 80% of the time (mostly only for "long" rides) and I don't think I ride any different with or without.

If really the environmental impact is important to you, for 3000 km a year maybe it is a good idea to buy a tiny car if you can live with one. Something like a VW Up or similar. But the best I guess is keeping the one you already have if it is still working.

[Alberto]

not greener than my cheap and crappy ICE that drives 3000km/yr.

Did you read the article I put up?

OK, I read it just now.
Hope they're right in saying recycling EV batteries is good and improving... though me being me I'm skeptical...

Edit:
lets' not forget that electric vs burning fossil is only one part of the whole thing. Even a car that never runs causes huge amount of enviromental damage because the material must be mined, manufactured, transported, parked on paved ground, bla bla.
I sin too, after all I own a car and much other hardware, live in a heated house, fly occasionally, etc etc.

[LeonG]

lets' not forget that electric vs burning fossil is only one part of the whole thing.

Sometimes you get electric through fossil too. I lived in a city at one point where the majority of their power was coming from coal.

[alma.freya]

lets' not forget that electric vs burning fossil is only one part of the whole thing.

Sometimes you get electric through fossil too. I lived in a city at one point where the majority of their power was coming from coal.

Isn't having everything run on electric the goal? Electricity can be generated using wind, sun, water, nuclear, guinea pigs, gas, oil, coal. The infrastructure stays the same, but the method of generation varies.

[Fraufruit]

lets' not forget that electric vs burning fossil is only one part of the whole thing.

Sometimes you get electric through fossil too. I lived in a city at one point where the majority of their power was coming from coal.

From my link-

Fully assessing when an EV hits its breakeven point depends on the source of electricity used for battery manufacturing and charging the vehicle. Cleaner electricity means a shorter payback period, but even in regions that still get electricity from coal, EVs eventually win out.

The boom in renewable energy will make EVs even less polluting. Solar installations have set annual records worldwide for 22 consecutive years, and the pace appears to be accelerating, according to data from the International Energy Agency. By 2030, when the US grid is expected to get two thirds of its power from carbon-free sources, an EV built with recycled materials could break even on emissions in a matter of months.

[Alberto]

If you're interested I recommend the book of Bill gates on this topic. He convinced me that even if we were to produce ALL energy vua renewables, so zero fossil burning, we would still be emitting more co2 than the planet can tolerate.

Making stuff emits co2. Even with entirely renewable energy.

[Fraufruit]

Making stuff emits co2. Even with entirely renewable energy.

Yes, but would you agree that making stuff that doesn't produce co2 is better than making stuff that does?

[bethannbitt]

If you're interested I recommend the book of Bill gates on this topic. He convinced me that even if we were to produce ALL energy vua renewables, so zero fossil burning, we would still be emitting more co2 than the planet can tolerate.

Making stuff emits co2. Even with entirely renewable energy.

That’s quite rich coming from a billionaire who enjoys consumption, has lots of toys, and jets about as he pleases.

[Krieg]

If you're interested I recommend the book of Bill gates on this topic. He convinced me that even if we were to produce ALL energy vua renewables, so zero fossil burning, we would still be emitting more co2 than the planet can tolerate.

Making stuff emits co2. Even with entirely renewable energy.

That’s quite rich coming from a billionaire who enjoys consumption, has lots of toys, and jets about as he pleases.

He pays to do direct air capture (filtering and removing C02 from the environment) more than enough to offset his and his family’s carbon footprint. So he dirties the air but he gets it cleaned up. I am not really sure that’s the best way but it is still better than nothing. Plus he really donates a lot to fight climate change.

[Alberto]

Guys, read his book, it's very good.

In fact I still have my copy here somewhere, I'm happy to post it to whoever wants it.
Anyone?