Can British citizens travel to the UK using a non-British passport?

[bethannbitt]

Regarding the expired passport topic:-

Dual nationals could use expired UK passports to prove they are British, Home Office says

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, I am British and not having a British passport doesn't change that.

From the article:-

Morgan Read, an immigration barrister at North Square chambers, said there was nothing in the Immigration Act 1971 requiring a valid UK passport to prove British citizenship. “It is well established that expired passports can be used to prove citizenship and identity – that’s not their purpose, but they can be used for that,” he said, pointing to the official government page on “right to work” checks for British or Irish citizens that allows expired passports.

My elderly mother in the US has used her expired passport to open a new bank account, acquire a state ID (since she no longer drives), and register to vote. It's a practical solution in certain cases. The passport acquisition has already vetted the person.

[snowingagain]

What I had missed was they are putting the onus onto ferries/airlines to check this. Which makes it more complicated because the cost implications to them if have to ship/fly someone back may make them hyper cautious. Carriers are being told that a post 1989 expired passport will be one of the options. I guess we will find out as this all starts today.

[Franklan]

What I had missed was they are putting the onus onto ferries/airlines to check this.

Exactly. Aer Lingus scraps driver-licence travel option – Irish and UK passengers will need passports from 25 February

[pappnase]

The driving license thing kinda makes sense though, a driving license has very little to do with your nationality or your entitlement to visit the UK.

I mean it has your date and place of birth on it, which is a start towards establishing your citizenship, but on it's own it's nowhere near enough.
You can be an foreign national from one of many places, and if you are living in Ireland you can exchange your license for an Irish one.

I can easily see an Irish license showing a UK place of birth belonging to an German with no right to travel to the UK without an ESTA.

[pappnase]

Also while we are on the whole topic, how come they can make a paper passport which gives me entry to the UK and loads of other places for £94.50, but to make a digital "Certificate of entitlement" it costs £589?

I mean I would still be pissed off if I had to pay 94.50 but 589 looks like profiteering to me.

[snowingagain]

... and a mere 482 GBP to rescind citizenship. Bargain really.

[kaffeemitmilch]

Also while we are on the whole topic, how come they can make a paper passport which gives me entry to the UK and loads of other places for £94.50, but to make a digital "Certificate of entitlement" it costs £589?

I mean I would still be pissed off if I had to pay 94.50 but 589 looks like profiteering to me.

I know, it boggles the mind.

[bethannbitt]

Renewing a passport every 10 years for 95 GBP is like an insurance policy IMO. For Americans it's about the same ($130), and I have/will never let my pass lapse to avoid a $13 per year insurance policy. For slightly over $1 a month I never ever worry about whether or not I can fly "home" pronto cuz my elderly mother is sick, or ... We too have ways of doing things in emergencies that may cost a pretty penny, but the bigger problem for me would be the hassle and worry in a moment of crisis. No Thanks! Not for $1 a month. But that's just me, and I don't buy lots of insurance generally speaking.

[snowingagain]

I think main complaint is that this change for dual EU/UK nationals was announced a year ago, but was not well publicised and people in EU had little idea. Not sure if this was different for dual US German folks?

[bethannbitt]

I think main complaint is that this change for dual EU/UK nationals was announced a year ago, but was not well publicised and people in EU had little idea. Not sure if this was different for dual US German folks?

Dual American-Germans and Americans residing in Germany have always been required to enter the US on an updated US passport, and vice versa. This seems to be Brexit rearing it's ugly head. I can fully appreciate the unwelcomeness of the change. For me it's just always been this way.

[Fraufruit]

Yes, my American friend who lives here got stopped at the airport in Florida last year and wasn't allowed to fly home because her U.S. passport was going to expire in a few months. She had to fly to New Orleans to get an emergency passport. That wasn't cheap or convenient. Mind you, that was leaving the U.S., not trying to get in.

So nothing new for us.

Also, every time I book a flight anywhere, it tells me exactly what documentation I need to fly.

[bethannbitt]

Right. My Armenian-Germerican grands (3, 6, & 9), who have never set foot in the US, have US passports (no dual citizenship) that must be renewed every 5 years. We have to always keep track of each cycle cuz a US citizen can't enter the EU with less than 3 months to expiration since that's the length of a tourist visa. Only thing I can say to these folks here is, one just adjusts to it. Right now it's new, and a shock.

[bethannbitt]

Here we go. New rules being tested as we speak. From today's Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-children

[kaffeemitmilch]

Yes, my American friend who lives here got stopped at the airport in Florida last year and wasn't allowed to fly home because her U.S. passport was going to expire in a few months. She had to fly to New Orleans to get an emergency passport. That wasn't cheap or convenient. Mind you, that was leaving the U.S., not trying to get in.

So nothing new for us.

Also, every time I book a flight anywhere, it tells me exactly what documentation I need to fly.

This will have been an airline requirement, though if she had a residence permit, she should have been allowed to fly on even an almost expiring passport. But this had nothing to do with the US government.

[Fraufruit]

This will have been an airline requirement, though if she had a residence permit, she should have been allowed to fly on even an almost expiring passport. But this had nothing to do with the US government.

She wasn't allowed to fly without getting the new passport and New Orleans was the only place to get one so more flights, hotel, etc. and she had to eat her original ticket back to Munich.

And you are correct, what the UK is doing right now is a different game. The new rules weren't introduced properly and it is very unfortunate.

[yesterday]

As far as I understand it the change is the same in the US, UK and EU.

The UK, voted through this in a law from 2023 but delayed implementation until this February this year. But its like any new law, that you did not know about, its applicable, even if you did not know things had changed.

From the UK side it is catching up with the rest of the world and BREXIT made it possible for the UK to do it.

It seems to be a direct response, to the people saying immigration is too high, these measures will enable better checking at the border of people who should and should not be allowed in a particular area.

Allowing people to enter into the UK on a 35 year old expired passport ( from 1989 ), does not allow border control to make good decisions on whether a person can enter the region or not, do you not think your passport photo, will look completely different after this period of time, to your actual photo today ????. These changes will make passport control more able to process people in the correct way.

When a person turns up at board control who says they were born in the UK and has a passport from 1989 and can show a German passport with ETA and tells you them that are visiting family and you will be back in Germany soon. Passport control may doubt that, maybe they think you you just want to get in and will never go home and try to get on to the social security system. How are they supposed to know if you are lying or not. You have to convince that border control person that you have the legal right to enter the country and the easiest way to do that is to show them a valid passport for that country.

I just hope I never have to stand in a long que, waiting to get into the UK one day, caused by many people coming without a valid UK passport and having to chat for 15 minutes with boarder control, trying to decide if they will let a person into the country or not, so they can save 10 pounds a year.

Anybody who does not like this change should think what's important to them, if I needed/wanted to go to the UK, at the last minute for a funerial or something like that, and I had not maintained my UK passport, so got turned away at passport control, it would be my fault for not maintaining the passport for the sake of 10 pounds a year. If my family members got to find out that that I could not go to the funerial to save 10 pounds a year, they may question my dedication to the family. Is that worth it ???

Airlines are commercial companies ( mainly ), they make money by flying people around, so they want to fly as many people around at the greatest cost as possible. However if they fly a person to a country that will not accept them, because there are not enough months left on the passport, then the airplanes has to fly them back free of charge. Airlines do not want that., because it does make money. Its the destination country that dictates the conditions on getting into a country or not, for most country's, they require 6 months left on the passport, on the return flight date. Its not the airlines who insist on this.

While I have every sympathy, with people faced with having to get an extra passport that they did not need in the past, it will enable passport control to do a better job at rejecting people who are not allowed into a particular zone. its just a side effect of BREXIT really.

[snowingagain]

I have some problems with this. In 1989 as a dual national (NZ/(UK) had problems (for the first time) with entering UK on my NZ passport. So your dates are way off. My NZ passport said place of birth UK. But major thing was I was dealing with immigration guys, and was lucky enough not just to sound British, but also (their words) was white.

[yesterday]

I have some problems with this. In 1989 as a dual national (NZ/(UK) had problems (for the first time) with entering UK on my NZ passport. So your dates are way off. My NZ passport said place of birth UK. But major thing was I was dealing with immigration guys, and was lucky enough not just to sound British, but also (their words) was white.

Expired British passport issued as long ago as 1989 could get dual nationals into UK

See here
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/ne ... 24125.html

with in it, you will read
"But The Independent has learnt the carriers have been told they can accept “at their discretion” an expired British passport issued as long ago as 1989 – as long as it is accompanied by a valid passport issued by a nation whose citizens do not require a visa to travel to the UK."

Maybe the rules were different back then, but this seems to be the rules now.